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whitex
Well-Known Member
ASSUMING WE ARE TALKING US DOLLARS (since OP is from Sweden, but the post talks about $ not krona) and therefore using US prices:
$6K sound like a nice low price to upgrade, HOWEVER, a 75D equipped with all the options this 90D has plus some (like BioWeapon defense mode) would be $97K, subtract referral $1K and $7.5K federal credit, and you are at $88.5. So, you could have a BRAND NEW 75D, red, pano, leather, 21", EAP, Air, etc, etc. and pocket $12.5K instead of shelling out $6K, so really it's an $18.K decision.
If we are talking a different currency, how much would a 75D with all the options cost you there @Verdi?
$6K sound like a nice low price to upgrade, HOWEVER, a 75D equipped with all the options this 90D has plus some (like BioWeapon defense mode) would be $97K, subtract referral $1K and $7.5K federal credit, and you are at $88.5. So, you could have a BRAND NEW 75D, red, pano, leather, 21", EAP, Air, etc, etc. and pocket $12.5K instead of shelling out $6K, so really it's an $18.K decision.
If we are talking a different currency, how much would a 75D with all the options cost you there @Verdi?
FlyingCookie
Member
I'd get the 90, If i were you. SAS is awesome, and if you don't care about FSD (which may take ages to actually happen) AP1 is better, currently.
Just keep in mind the tires that go on those pretty 21" wheels cost a whole lot more and don't last as long.
Just keep in mind the tires that go on those pretty 21" wheels cost a whole lot more and don't last as long.
It's not just color though. The 21" wheels with brand new tires are almost worth $6k even on the second hand market. I also get ultra hifi, premium package, nicer interior, electric tailgate opening, air suspension...
There's also the interior.
No tax. Technically I don't sell my car or buy the other. I'm signing over my lease to another company and taking over the existing lease on the 90D. In the short run I will actually make $2k as I will be paid $14k for my contract but only pay $12k for the contract on the 90D. (the current lease residual is lower than current market value for both cars as we usually start our leases here by making a 20% first deposit)
But I'll get a slightly higher monthly payment and the remainder of the contract is only 22 months (instead of the 31 months I have left on my contract).
I'm not even sure if this will cost me any money at all as we don't know how much the 90D will be worth in 22 months compared to how much my 75D will be worth in 31 months. I do think the risk on the shorter contract is lower. There's the currency risk against the dollar, the Model 3 and other new models etc etc than can upset the market values on Model S in coming years. With a 90D I think I'm moving myself further away from the Model 3 segment of the market as well as lowering the risk by shortening the time until the lease is up.
That's my general idea at least. But if AP2 proves to be a major hit (doubt it) then this could come back and bite me...
A brand new S 75D with the same specifications, including winter tires at $4k) as the 90D would cost 1 168 200 SEK. The referral is gone since Nov 1 here and our "federal credit is only 40 000 SEK (~$4.8k). The grand total of a new 75D would be around $135k. (A 100D is $168k)
So... I've done calculations on a brand new one as well and it's absolutely not a bad deal if I keep the options down to a minimum. But if I tick all the options it will be quite expensive indeed.
The reason I use USD and not SEK for numbers is of course so you can understand what I'm talking about.
FSD will probably NEVER happen with these AP2 cars. The hardware on new cars delivered now is already improved, as is the hardware on the Model 3. I've heard several experts saying that the hardware on the AP2 simply isn't good enough to allow FSD.
Yes, I will get brand new Continentals on them now though and I don't think I'll need to change them again. Will only drive them 2 summer seasons. Here we drive on winter tires 4-5 months of the year as well which will help a bit.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Thanks for clarifying. Btw, when using USD the confusion is that folks may assume US Tesla pricing, which apparently is significantly lower than Tesla prices in Sweden.A brand new S 75D with the same specifications, including winter tires at $4k) as the 90D would cost 1 168 200 SEK. The referral is gone since Nov 1 here and our "federal credit is only 40 000 SEK (~$4.8k). The grand total of a new 75D would be around $135k. (A 100D is $168k)
So... I've done calculations on a brand new one as well and it's absolutely not a bad deal if I keep the options down to a minimum. But if I tick all the options it will be quite expensive indeed.
The reason I use USD and not SEK for numbers is of course so you can understand what I'm talking about.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
As one of the relatively few who have owned both an AP1 and AP2 car and have driven both extensively (60K miles w AP1, 20K miles and counting w AP2), here’s my $0.02:
Get the AP1 90D as a bridge car for 2-3 years.
AP2 is not at parity with AP1 on the highway and most definitely not off-highway *at this time*. AP2 does beat AP1 in exactly one useful use case (following a poorly marked road (both highway and 2-lane) in horrible wx). But that’s it.
I take JonMc and others at their word when they say their development versions of AP2 are fabulous. However, if you review carefully today’s quarterly call statements, it is also evident that it will be awhile before all of it gets delivered. The fleet does rack up millions of miles a month which is great.
So knowing as I do that AP1 is solid, and that the promise of stop sign recognition, let alone reaction) is not yet here (despite the now just shy of 1-year old video showing same), I’d recommend the AP1 90D.
In fact, I am quietly looking for an AP1 car to replace my AP2 car. If I find one before my AWD Model 3 reservation expires (including the 1-time 6-month deferral, that means early 2019), then great. If AP2 delivers stop sign and traffic light reaction by then, great.
There should also be a Model S refresh coming which could be exceedingly cool. Think HUD and AR and side “mirror” cams and a WiFi hotspot and 360 view and glass breakage sensors. Oh, my.
An AP1 car will serve as a nice bridge while all of that shakes out.
The Model 3 in 2020 should have even better range and so forth. As well, some used models will be available and with 300+ mile range will be quite attractive.
So it’s just a matter of getting from here to there. The right CPO AP1 car is the most cost-effective option for the short term. Get one with 45K miles with the ESA to 100K miles, and unless you drive like I do, you’re good/covered for a good 3 years. Enjoy the ride.
Get the AP1 90D as a bridge car for 2-3 years.
AP2 is not at parity with AP1 on the highway and most definitely not off-highway *at this time*. AP2 does beat AP1 in exactly one useful use case (following a poorly marked road (both highway and 2-lane) in horrible wx). But that’s it.
I take JonMc and others at their word when they say their development versions of AP2 are fabulous. However, if you review carefully today’s quarterly call statements, it is also evident that it will be awhile before all of it gets delivered. The fleet does rack up millions of miles a month which is great.
So knowing as I do that AP1 is solid, and that the promise of stop sign recognition, let alone reaction) is not yet here (despite the now just shy of 1-year old video showing same), I’d recommend the AP1 90D.
In fact, I am quietly looking for an AP1 car to replace my AP2 car. If I find one before my AWD Model 3 reservation expires (including the 1-time 6-month deferral, that means early 2019), then great. If AP2 delivers stop sign and traffic light reaction by then, great.
There should also be a Model S refresh coming which could be exceedingly cool. Think HUD and AR and side “mirror” cams and a WiFi hotspot and 360 view and glass breakage sensors. Oh, my.
An AP1 car will serve as a nice bridge while all of that shakes out.
The Model 3 in 2020 should have even better range and so forth. As well, some used models will be available and with 300+ mile range will be quite attractive.
So it’s just a matter of getting from here to there. The right CPO AP1 car is the most cost-effective option for the short term. Get one with 45K miles with the ESA to 100K miles, and unless you drive like I do, you’re good/covered for a good 3 years. Enjoy the ride.
whitex
Well-Known Member
I think Elon has a better chance of being crowned Miss Teen USA than delivering FSD on AP2.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
I think Elon has a better chance of being crowned Miss Teen USA than delivering FSD on AP2.
Hey, as long as he brings s’mores, whiskey, and stop sign reaction (not even traffic light reaction), I’d call that an FSD win with the current hardware.
Add the Barry White chargers which implies a more robust Summon feature, along with self-parking after vacating the stall when the charge is complete (and re-trying in case, say, someone is standing in front of the car during the first attempt), and I’ll even buy the whiskey.
Seems reasonable.
Thanks, I have exactly the same view as you. Many things will happen in the coming years. I'm not even sure my next car after the 90D will be a Tesla.
I will keep the 90D for exactly 22 months until the lease expires. I then hope there are many options available by then. Including cheaper alternatives. I'm not losing any sleep over missing out on AP2 at all.
I will keep the 90D for exactly 22 months until the lease expires. I then hope there are many options available by then. Including cheaper alternatives. I'm not losing any sleep over missing out on AP2 at all.
Okay - for me - if you are perfectly content with the ability of AP1 - I would go for the 90D. I have two S's - one on coils one on air. The air is SOOOOOO much nicer it makes it like a whole different car. On the other hand you live in Sweden and probably have perfectly smooth roads. So maybe coils are not a problem there. But the range of 90D and the acceleration, also premium audio - yeah I'd probably prefer it.
Yes, I think so. I really don't see what AP2 is supposed to be doing in the near future that I can't be without.
In theory in the near future it will possibly be safer on highways so you can take attention off the road with somewhat lower odds of a crash should the unexpected happen. Whether or not that is actually true - who knows.
murphyS90D
Member
In PA the tax (6% where I live, higher in big cities) is paid on the difference in the price of the new car and the trade in value of an old car.
