Sdge, Ev Tou5, Solar, Powerwall And Sgip?

[ysquared2]

I'm a little bit confused about SGIP. If we go through Tesla directly, does it mean there's no more SGIP funding available?

Energy Incentives | Tesla Support
Looks like we'll need to go through 3rd party installers to get SGIP? Do 3rd party installers charge extra $$$?
How much is the total cost to add powerwall in SoCal?

I currently have 5.5kw solar system. Since we got MX off peak usage has skyrocketed. Our projected offpeak kwh is at least ~700kwh this month. We are on TOU-DR, with two teslas it's difficult to stay below 130% baseline.

Does it make sense to switch to EV TOU5? And adding a powerwall?

Thanks.

 

[NuShrike]

I'm a little bit confused about SGIP. If we go through Tesla directly, does it mean there's no more SGIP funding available?

Energy Incentives | Tesla Support
Looks like we'll need to go through 3rd party installers to get SGIP? Do 3rd party installers charge extra $$$?
How much is the total cost to add powerwall in SoCal?

I currently have 5.5kw solar system. Since we got MX off peak usage has skyrocketed. Our projected offpeak kwh is at least ~700kwh this month. We are on TOU-DR, with two teslas it's difficult to stay below 130% baseline.

Does it make sense to switch to EV TOU5? And adding a powerwall?

Thanks.
View attachment 422098

Yes.

Yes, Yes.
Varies.

No comment. No comment.

 

[ysquared2]

Yes.

Yes, Yes.
Varies.

No comment. No comment.

Thanks. Got a quote from a certified installer.

13.5k for 1 powerwall
21k for 2

Reasonable or not?

 

[RoBoRaT]

Thanks. Got a quote from a certified installer.

13.5k for 1 powerwall
21k for 2

Reasonable or not?

Baker Home Energy did it for 19950 for 2 PowerWalls. Contract signed Feb 2019, installed May 2019.

Was originally 21K quote by baker, but I showed them Teslas, and Baker matched Tesla Energy's PW quote.

Tell them I referred you

And, Baker did all SGIP reservation legwork plus paid for 5% application fee.

 

[ysquared2]

Baker Home Energy did it for 19950 for 2 PowerWalls. Contract signed Feb 2019, installed May 2019.

Was originally 21K quote by baker, but I showed them Teslas, and Baker matched Tesla Energy's PW quote.

Tell them I referred you

And, Baker did all SGIP reservation legwork plus paid for 5% application fee.

Thanks! I’ll reach out the them!

How much SGIP rebate were you able to get?

 

[RoBoRaT]

Thanks! I’ll reach out the them!

How much SGIP rebate were you able to get?

They were able to reserve at Step 4 with SCE at roughly $7K.

 

[NuShrike]

Thanks. Got a quote from a certified installer.

13.5k for 1 powerwall
21k for 2

Reasonable or not?

Check with Stellar Solar and Infinity Solar. They're lower than your current quotes for two, and more similar/lower than Baker.

If you don't get lower quotes, I can give you direct referrals. I do not know what step anybody is at this point.

 

[ysquared2]

Check with Stellar Solar and Infinity Solar. They're lower than your current quotes for two, and more similar/lower than Baker.

If you don't get lower quotes, I can give you direct referrals. I do not know what step anybody is at this point.

My quote was actually from Sunpower by Stellar Solar. That’s my solar panel company.

 

[dotbombjoe]

I currently have 5.5kw solar system. Since we got MX off peak usage has skyrocketed. Our projected offpeak kwh is at least ~700kwh this month. We are on TOU-DR, with two teslas it's difficult to stay below 130% baseline.

Does it make sense to switch to EV TOU5? And adding a powerwall?

I'd consider EV TOU5 without the power wall if you are focused on $. Based on the usage you provided, I don't think the PW will help you a ton and they are a lot of money now that the subsidies are so reduced or outright gone. If you want it for backup power and have the money, sure, go for it...but don't get one because you think it is going to save you money, it will not.

Your usage is almost entirely super-off peak, which is $0.09 on TOU5. The peak usage I see is primarily in the winter, when peak = off-peak...so there is no real arbitrage opportunity in the winter; you are better off selling every spec of generation back to SDGE as it is produced rather than storing it in the pkwerwall to offset peak rate.

In the summer, there is some arbitrage opportunity because you would be storing "off-peak" generation from your solar in the PW to wipe out your peak usage...and that's basically 2 for 1...and it is a touch better also because your PW would be charged before 4pm when peak starts, so you can still sell any generation during peak back at full rate, but it based on your bill the limited savings the PW can help you achieve will not put a dent in its up front cost.

Financially, switch to EV-TOU5 yesterday...and don't waste your money on a powerwall. But if you want a super-convenient, incredibly cool way to power your house through an outage and have money to burn -- the PW is awesome.

 

[RandyS]

I'm a little bit confused about SGIP. If we go through Tesla directly, does it mean there's no more SGIP funding available?

Energy Incentives | Tesla Support
Looks like we'll need to go through 3rd party installers to get SGIP? Do 3rd party installers charge extra $$$?
How much is the total cost to add powerwall in SoCal?

I currently have 5.5kw solar system. Since we got MX off peak usage has skyrocketed. Our projected offpeak kwh is at least ~700kwh this month. We are on TOU-DR, with two teslas it's difficult to stay below 130% baseline.

Does it make sense to switch to EV TOU5? And adding a powerwall?

Thanks.

ysquared2, one main advantage of the residential EV rates is that they don't have any tiers. Seems like you would be better off on EV-TOU5 vs. EV-TOU2 because of your super off-peak consumption. When did you switch to TOU-DR? You may not be able to switch to EV-TOU5 right away (until you've been on your existing rate for 1 year)...But you definitely want to move away from a TOU tiered rate...

 

[davewill]

The SDG&E website will let you log in and get an estimate of what different rate plans would have cost you based on your previous 12 months usage. Takes a lot of the guesswork out of the decision. I ended up on EV-TOU5 because I could plainly see that it cut my annual bill in half.

 

[ysquared2]

Thanks for the replies! I just checked my account and it seems I won’t be able to switch until 09/2019. So I guess I’ll wait till then. Hopefully this year’s SDGE EV climate credit can offset some of my bill.

 

[CaliM3]

I'm a little bit confused about SGIP. If we go through Tesla directly, does it mean there's no more SGIP funding available?

Energy Incentives | Tesla Support
Looks like we'll need to go through 3rd party installers to get SGIP? Do 3rd party installers charge extra $$$?
How much is the total cost to add powerwall in SoCal?

I currently have 5.5kw solar system. Since we got MX off peak usage has skyrocketed. Our projected offpeak kwh is at least ~700kwh this month. We are on TOU-DR, with two teslas it's difficult to stay below 130% baseline.

Does it make sense to switch to EV TOU5? And adding a powerwall?

Thanks.
View attachment 422098

I am in a similar boat, but I wonder if I should consider adding more solar panels before adding a storage. A few more panels seem to be cheaper, and you have more energy to use. I am in San Diego via SDGE, I thought the Time-of-Use calculation would be realized after you used all the energy generated for the Ture Up year. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[NuShrike]

I am in a similar boat, but I wonder if I should consider adding more solar panels before adding a storage. A few more panels seem to be cheaper, and you have more energy to use. I am in San Diego via SDGE, I thought the Time-of-Use calculation would be realized after you used all the energy generated for the Ture Up year. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Battery is to fight the shifting of the TOU hours to basically after solar hours. More panels is harder to compensate if they also devalue the solar FiT.

Depending on the TOU peak rates, you may need X-times more solar to offset the usage in the late TOU hours.

 

[dotbombjoe]

Battery is to fight the shifting of the TOU hours to basically after solar hours. More panels is harder to compensate if they also devalue the solar FiT.

Depending on the TOU peak rates, you may need X-times more solar to offset the usage in the late TOU hours.

The problem is batteries without serious incentives are way too expensive for them to pay for themselves, let alone save money. I'm not sure what incentives are still available re: SGIP, but I don't think it's substantial enough at this point to make it cost effective. The 30% federal credit is great and all, but PW is $...after the federal credit, you're looking at $10k out of pocket.

The arbitrage opportunity of the powerwall helps, but it isn't going to recover $10k in any reasonable amount of time if ever. Arbitrage is only viable (in SDGE) in the summer...and it's capped at how much peak you consume. He seems not to be using a ton of peak, at least in the summer although admittedly, we're missing a couple months.

First step, reduce your usage.
Second step, move your usage to super-off peak, and off-peak as much as possible.
Third, consider more solar, especially west facing, if you still need to offset more.

The first two are free! The third will most likely pay for itself over time if you really have the usage to warrant it.

Powerwalls are great for convenient backup, albeit expensive...but I think people are drastically over-estimating the arbitrage value...it's negligible, at least based on most of the bills I see from the folks considering them. Maybe I'm miscalculating...but for ysquared2 for example, it's difficult to imagine how it amounts to more than say $100-200/year.

 

[montreid]

Grandfathered NEM 1.0 and made the switch over to TOU5 --- saving quite a bundle just because we charge so much at night on the EV. IIRC, break even is low -- something around 250kwh (700miles driving monthly). So any average driver should come out ahead on switching.

Also have PW and that cancels out the TOU shift to 4p-9p even with our undersized PV array, it's plenty to charge the PW to carry us through the peak hours. That arbitrage alone isn't a slam dunk even when we got in on Stage 3 and direct Tesla. The break even time is nearly 5 years. But it's nice to have as a backup especially with the real rolling blackout threats folk are doing these days.

 

[2017ModS]

Hi everyone, could you please give me some newbie advice on similar matters?
I'm on SDGE EVTOU2 now and my estimated yearly cost is $1311 (8kW array no PW yet) and according to SDGE website, if I switch to EVTOU5, my estimated cost is $305. If I switch to TOU5, do I lose the ability to sell power back to the grid?
Thanks!

 

[dotbombjoe]

No, you don't lose the ability to sell power back to the grid.

I switched from EVTOU2 to EVTOU5 after my year was up back in April. The structure of the bill is basically identical -- the primary difference is the $16 monthly fee and the $0.09 rate for super-off peak...but structurally everything else is the same re: seeing the breakdown of power consumption and generation and monthly remaining credit details and whatnot.

EVTOU5 is a killer deal for anyone that can schedule the bulk of their consumption to super-off peak...and from the sound of their calculator, that includes you!

PWs are great for backup, but not particularly economical now that SGIP is done...if you really want/need backup, by all means go for it (again...awesome) but don't do it for financial reasons because it will not pay for itself.

 

[CaliM3]

I am glad someone is talking about SDG&E. I would love some advise from NEM 1.0 users. I put in 7kw solar system, but SDG&E bill shows I have 6.25 kW system. I guess there is some inefficiency of the system hence 10% drop after 4 years. My account has -$50 at true up for slightly over generated last year. My bill estimator shows it would cost the same for all the plans (based on last year without EV). But now with the M3, should I switch to TOU5? Not sure if $16 per month would do me any good. We drive/charge about 1000 mile/month.

 

[GenSao]

The problem is batteries without serious incentives are way too expensive for them to pay for themselves, let alone save money. I'm not sure what incentives are still available re: SGIP, but I don't think it's substantial enough at this point to make it cost effective. The 30% federal credit is great and all, but PW is $...after the federal credit, you're looking at $10k out of pocket.

The arbitrage opportunity of the powerwall helps, but it isn't going to recover $10k in any reasonable amount of time if ever. Arbitrage is only viable (in SDGE) in the summer...and it's capped at how much peak you consume. He seems not to be using a ton of peak, at least in the summer although admittedly, we're missing a couple months.

First step, reduce your usage.
Second step, move your usage to super-off peak, and off-peak as much as possible.
Third, consider more solar, especially west facing, if you still need to offset more.

The first two are free! The third will most likely pay for itself over time if you really have the usage to warrant it.

Powerwalls are great for convenient backup, albeit expensive...but I think people are drastically over-estimating the arbitrage value...it's negligible, at least based on most of the bills I see from the folks considering them. Maybe I'm miscalculating...but for ysquared2 for example, it's difficult to imagine how it amounts to more than say $100-200/year.

The Return on Investment (ROI) for PWs can be poor if you exclude the value (cost) for an equivalent backup with a diesel generator (installation, maintenance, & fuel). Not many people consider the backup portion of the Powerwall which would help in the ROI calculations. The equivalent backup could be valued anywhere from $2,000 to $5,000.

Furthermore, if you get Powerwalls, you can also join a demand response program such as Ohm Connect and make money to help offset the cost of your installation. Note, link includes a referral link.

The ROI will depends greatly if the batteries (with your solar production) will offset a good deal of your peak usage (aka peak shaving). We only see the net peak usage (553 kWh). With Advanced Time-of-Use Control in Cost Savings Mode, you can export all your solar during peak and part-peak while the batteries cover you actual power use for an overall negative net peak use.

For reference, I have a similarly sized solar system (5.7 KW). Over the last year our 2X Powerwalls offset 1,800 kWH of home usage during peak and part-peak TOU. Based on PG&E's EV-A TOU and the spread between Peak/Part-Peak and Off-Peak rates, I estimated I save $500/year. I made over $800 last year with the demand response program for a total of $1,300/year saved/earned.

Our Powerwalls cost $9,700 (rounded up, after 30% fed tax credit, no SGIP). Assuming $0 value for backup, ROI over 10 years is 34%. With a $2,000 value for backup, ROI over 10 years jumps to 69%. This is an oversimplified calculation and does not consider long term fluctuation to the demand response program, TOU rate changes, and fluctuation to actual peak saving.