Severe Winter Driving Concerns with AWD Model 3

[roguenode]

As others have said, winter tires make a world of difference. Everything I’ve read, including tests done by tire rack, says that studs are more trouble that they’re worth these days. Modern rubber formulations and tread design tend to outperform studs in most winter situations.

I switched to a nonstudded tire from the hakka studded as I could not get a set to last two full seasons (Hakka 6's and 7's). I loved their initial bite turning on icy downhills and when starting from stopped on an icy incline, but daily canyon driving wore them more than expected and a large amount of studs were also lost. The R2's and X-Ice's are better options for solid heavy winter conditions combined with mountain driving imo.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Good winter tires will help you even without lots of snow and are a worth investment.

This is an important point. Even on bone dry pavement, the colder it gets the more the winter tires stand out because their compound stays softer. As temps drop below freezing proper summer tires, rather than all seasons, get so inflexible that not do they stop gripping but they start getting microscopic cracking and thus permanently damaged. All seasons don't get like that as quickly but they do start to lose grip the colder it gets.

Likewise as it gets warmer again the winter tires will start feeling mushy/slippery, and wear much faster, because they get too soft.

 

[coleAK]

I created a driver profile called "Snow" that has the regen on low and chill for acceleration.

I want to concur with the people on this thread who have pointed out the importance of good winter tires. I didn't really take that seriously until I had a minor crash in slippery conditions in cold weather and started doing research. Good winter tires will help you even without lots of snow and are a worth investment. The additional cost is often just what the wheels you get cost because you are avoiding wear on your non-winter tires. And the cost of one crash makes up for the cost of the wheels.

I’ve been saying for years. If winter tires save you from one wreck they more than paid for themselves.

 

[StealthP3D]

I’ve been saying for years. If winter tires save you from one wreck they more than paid for themselves.

To clarify for those who don't do the winter tire thing, you really only need to invest in the winter wheels. The winter tires extend the life of your warm weather set by an amount equal to however many miles you put on the winter ones. And it doesn't take much of a dent cost more than a set of 4 aluminum wheels. Even sliding into a curb can get expensive.

Everyone used to buy steel wheels for winter to save a few bucks but aluminum rims are pretty inexpensive these days and the lower inertia of a lighter wheel helps the tire hook up faster/easier if it spins up. Plus, your car can look good all year round.

 

[StellarRat]

I haven't seen any reports of Model 3's being driven with tire chains/cables on. That's a far more likely scenario for me as we tend to only get hit by snow every other winter maybe once or twice, but sometimes it can be a lot all at once. I'll probably take the bus to work on those days or just stay home.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I haven't seen any reports of Model 3's being driven with tire chains/cables on. That's a far more likely scenario for me as we tend to only get hit by snow every other winter maybe once or twice, but sometimes it can be a lot all at once. I'll probably take the bus to work on those days or just stay home.

The rear should be fine but on the stock tires it'd be pretty spooky running chains on the front. There's maybe 13mm clearance from the top of the tire to the tip of the arm that hangs over the corner of the tire. Perfectly snug it should fit but chains develop slack and come off the tire a bit with rotation.

 

[StellarRat]

The rear should be fine but on the stock tires it'd be pretty spooky running chains on the front. There's maybe 13mm clearance from the top of the tire to the tip of the arm that hangs over the corner of the tire. Perfectly snug it should fit but chains develop slack and come off the tire a bit with rotation.

Yeah, mine is RWD, so that's the only place I'd put them. If I remember correctly, you called it a "unicorn".

 

[coleAK]

To clarify for those who don't do the winter tire thing, you really only need to invest in the winter wheels. The winter tires extend the life of your warm weather set by an amount equal to however many miles you put on the winter ones. And it doesn't take much of a dent cost more than a set of 4 aluminum wheels. Even sliding into a curb can get expensive.

Everyone used to buy steel wheels for winter to save a few bucks but aluminum rims are pretty inexpensive these days and the lower inertia of a lighter wheel helps the tire hook up faster/easier if it spins up. Plus, your car can look good all year round.

Yes I end up buying 2 sets of tires over ~10 years. I mentioned it’s more expensive because in AK never can get a deal on hakka’s so end up paying at least 50% more for them than all seasons. But I guess it sort of evens out since I buy hakka’s every 6-7 years and all seasons every 4-5

 

[Msjulie]

The winter tires extend the life of your warm weather set by an amount equal to however many miles you put on the winter ones.

Many/most? places that require the use of winter tires also put down chemicals that really do a number on your nice summer rims so you get a plus there of preserving the rims from corrosion and other havoc

Yeah, mine is RWD, so that's the only place I'd put them.

Food for thought here - better traction to get going, check. But did you consider you'd love better traction up front for steering and braking?

Spent too many years in New England winters and always did the winter rim+tire thing on all 4 corners.

• It made the front drive Civic more manageable in the cruft as the rear didn't slide out on it's on provocation much at all in turns
• Rear drive Toyota pickup could actually turn a corner in the muck, granted at lower speeds than the cars. The AWD in that truck was really 4WD w/o a center diff so not always useful on the main roads.
• It made the Audi Quattro (AWD) a beast in bad weather

Similar tire compound on all 4 will enhance the predictability of the car's handling..

Enjoy

 

[Tiger]

I never use chill but I do use studded winter tyres and have to say that my previous VAG AWD handled winter much better (I'd say "perfectly"). Tesla Bjorn explains it quite well here, there is a slight lag in engaging front wheels and it definitely needs a better 50%/50% or even 40%/60% "winter mode". Currently slight touch of the accelerator on icy surfaces and it fishtails on a straight road.

The Kia EV6 seems better in this particular respect, but would be interesting to try it on ice:

 

[eigenv1]

I never use chill but I do use studded winter tyres and have to say that my previous VAG AWD handled winter much better (I'd say "perfectly"). Tesla Bjorn explains it quite well here, there is a slight lag in engaging front wheels and it definitely needs a better 50%/50% or even 40%/60% "winter mode". Currently slight touch of the accelerator on icy surfaces and it fishtails on a straight road.

Bjørn’s train of thought videos crack me up.

It’s a white out. No, it’s not quite a white out. It’s so white out. Maybe I should slow down?

Great stuff.

 

[mswlogo]

I never use chill but I do use studded winter tyres and have to say that my previous VAG AWD handled winter much better (I'd say "perfectly"). Tesla Bjorn explains it quite well here, there is a slight lag in engaging front wheels and it definitely needs a better 50%/50% or even 40%/60% "winter mode". Currently slight touch of the accelerator on icy surfaces and it fishtails on a straight road.

The Kia EV6 seems better in this particular respect, but would be interesting to try it on ice:

I agree, almost any ICE AWD is better than Model 3 on slick roads.
It kind of works like the Blind Spot monitor (it alerts and corrects AFTER you start veering into someone, not before).
AWD Model 3 is RWD by default.

My FWD VAG with good snows felt more confident than AWD Model 3 with good snows. I moved to Model X and no issues now.

 

[coleAK]

I never use chill but I do use studded winter tyres and have to say that my previous VAG AWD handled winter much better (I'd say "perfectly"). Tesla Bjorn explains it quite well here, there is a slight lag in engaging front wheels and it definitely needs a better 50%/50% or even 40%/60% "winter mode". Currently slight touch of the accelerator on icy surfaces and it fishtails on a straight road.

The Kia EV6 seems better in this particular respect, but would be interesting to try it on ice:

It does much better in chill. I put the car in chill and regen low when I put my winter tires on later September and leave it that way until I take them off in May. I also run studs, hakka 9’s.

 

[coleAK]

Bjørn’s train of thought videos crack me up.

It’s a white out. No, it’s not quite a white out. It’s so white out. Maybe I should slow down?

Great stuff.

He definitely embellishes things.

 

[UtahFarmer]

I just rented a model 3 frosnowm Hertz in Boston. It has new Contential ProContact all season tires on it. I was horrified driving it in snow as other have noted, letting off the gas causes the back end to fishtail. I am sure it is the regen kicking in causing the car to loose traction. Unlike braking and anti-lock braking, the car does not seem to self-correct. I had it in chill mode and think (?) it was set for min regen but not 100% sure. I am sure running snow tires would make a big difference but I have driven over 2 million miles in vehicles with bald tires to snow flake rated tires, gas powered, Nissan Leaf (68K in the mountains of Utah for the past 5 years) to ambulances and everything in between. Driiving the Tesla in snow was not a fun nor safe experience, and I was only driiving in 1-3" of snow. Of course any car with snow tires will out perform all-seasons but the the at most, a few inches of snow, and new tires, this should have been a joy to drive, but it wasn't. I was very impressed with the Model 3 but now I know, before a flake of snow flies, I will want to have snow tires on the car. I think the original post that some tweaks need to be made can not be overstated, letting off the gas should not send you into a spin!

 

[IdaX]

Yeah: snow tires. All-seasons just aren’t good enough in the slush…

 

[mswlogo]

It’s barely passable even with snow tires. I’ve had FWD cars that did better. The RWD bias is not good in slick conditions. That’s partly why I traded it in for an X. X is a beast in the snow. Now have an S Refresh and expect it to behave like the X.

 

[coleAK]

I just rented a model 3 frosnowm Hertz in Boston. It has new Contential ProContact all season tires on it. I was horrified driving it in snow as other have noted, letting off the gas causes the back end to fishtail. I am sure it is the regen kicking in causing the car to loose traction. Unlike braking and anti-lock braking, the car does not seem to self-correct. I had it in chill mode and think (?) it was set for min regen but not 100% sure. I am sure running snow tires would make a big difference but I have driven over 2 million miles in vehicles with bald tires to snow flake rated tires, gas powered, Nissan Leaf (68K in the mountains of Utah for the past 5 years) to ambulances and everything in between. Driiving the Tesla in snow was not a fun nor safe experience, and I was only driiving in 1-3" of snow. Of course any car with snow tires will out perform all-seasons but the the at most, a few inches of snow, and new tires, this should have been a joy to drive, but it wasn't. I was very impressed with the Model 3 but now I know, before a flake of snow flies, I will want to have snow tires on the car. I think the original post that some tweaks need to be made can not be overstated, letting off the gas should not send you into a spin!

I’m in Alaska on my 5th winter in my LR AWD 3. Prior to the 3 had a model S for 4 winter, so on my 9th winter in Alaska with a Tesla.

Where I live the ground typically freezes early October, I usually have a snow covered yard at least mid October to mid May, salt was banned ~15 years ago, so most driving ~7 months a year are entirely on snow/ice and my tires rarely touch asphalt. I run dedicated winter tires on all my vehicles (also have Lexus LX570, Mercedes e 4matic, and subaru legacy), have Nokian Hakka’s on all Hakka 9’s on the 3. Put them on early October early October and take them off mid to late May. So everything below is in the context of winter tires. That said we do get snow time to time every month of the year so I have driven in snow on the MXM4’s (this past summer we had 3” last weekend in July) and they are awful in the snow. But as a comparison I run BFG KO2 AT tires in the summer on my LX570, those tires are 3 peak winter rated and the LX on KO2s at least as bad as the tesla on the ORM all seasons.

You are not wrong. Full Regen will straight up put it in a slide. My guess is you did not have regen in low, as I’ve never had it induce a slide in low, even on solid clear ice going down hill. When I switch to my winter tires I switch acceleration to Chill and Regen to low and leave it that way until I switch back to all seasons. I notice no range difference at all between regen low and regular. So really there is no disadvantage to running regen low all the time. I also switch regen to low in the rain.

Traction control. You are correct Tesla duel motor traction control is wonky. It was that way in my S, same in my 3. Rear slips, front motor kick is, rear slips, front kicks in,…. And it sort of wobbles along. If it makes you feel better I’ve never lost control, slid sideways, it just sort of feels a bit uneasy but honestly it dose not bother me anymore. I think it is a huge oversight not to have the traction F/R on the LR that is on the P.

To make a long story short: I originally ordered a P, back (spring of 2018) when you could order a “stealth” P motors, with the smaller brakes and 18” wheels. Aug 2018 when it can time for me to get mine Tesla told me that they were “never” building these cars and 18’s would absolutely not fit on a P. So I changed my car to a LD and got it 2 weeks later. So with P getting the drive settings I’m still a little pissed Tesla lied to me and I didn’t get a P with 18’s…

All that said. Yes the Tesla is subjectively the worst of all my vehicles in the snow, mostly due to the wobble feel. But Ilit isn’t bad and I never hesitate driving it in the winter and It is the car I drive most.

 

[jjrandorin]

My guess is you did not have regen in low, as I’ve never had it induce a slide in low, even on solid clear ice going down hill.

Tesla removed the ability to turn down the regen to low, sometime around 2020 or 2021 (I forget when exactly but could likely find some threads on it if desired). Vehicles that had the option still do, but new (defined from when they removed that as an option) dont.

I have zero experience with driving in the snow, since I live in Southern California, and am not a "winter sports" type at all, so I dont go up into the mountains to ski, etc. I just remember all the uproar about not being able to turn down regen.

 

[coleAK]

Tesla removed the ability to turn down the regen to low, sometime around 2020 or 2021 (I forget when exactly but could likely find some threads on it if desired). Vehicles that had the option still do, but new (defined from when they removed that as an option) dont.

I have zero experience with driving in the snow, since I live in Southern California, and am not a "winter sports" type at all, so I dont go up into the mountains to ski, etc. I just remember all the uproar about not being able to turn down regen.

Wow, didn’t know that. If I couldn’t turn regen to low I would not own a Tesla in an area that gets winter. Just another point to Tesla designs their cars for the banana belt…