Should Model 3 been a SUV?

[roblab]

Go to any mall parking lot. 80% of the vehicles are SUVs. Tesla made their point with the performance of the Model S, that an electric sedan could out-perform a gasoline powered one.

The Model 3 needed to be a car that SELLS, and today a car that sells is an SUV... The MY better be ready, and it better be good. Not sure another CUV will cut it, either.

First, I don't think that your opinion will sway Tesla a whole lot. They have smart people working for them, and their track record of making the right decision seems to be pretty good. The Model Y is supposed to be based on the 3, so it seems it will be a crossover. The X is the SUV. "Better be ready??" After a dozen years watching Tesla, I think they'll be ready. They'll be selling future vehicles for a long time.

Of course, Tesla will fail because it doesn't see the market as you do . How does anyone know that these "initial" buyers will slack off? Traditionally, a person buys a Tesla, takes it home, the neighbors see it, and at least one of them puts in an order, maybe two. That's the way Tesla advertises. Sales increase every week. People want the 3 because they saw the S and X.

 

[Ben W]

As my reservation gets closer to crunch time for order, does anyone else wish the Model 3 was a mid sized SUV?

I can’t imagine it being more expensive to build than the sedan - probably cheaper due to the open rear glass roof.

Being the most expensive car I have bought, I guess I could justify the expense if it had the utility of a SUV.

How have people reconciled this? Is it not a big deal for a small family?

The base $35k Model 3 will not have the all-glass roof; it's part of the Premium Upgrade Package.

Tesla's Master Plan has always been about making a "mass market" ($35k) vehicle as soon as possible. Model 3 is probably at least $2-3k cheaper to manufacture than an equivalent Model Y, partially because it's several hundred pounds lighter, and also because Elon has indicated that Model Y will have falcon-wing doors, which are not cheap. Also, the base Model Y will likely have AWD.

As such, going with the sedan first probably allows Tesla to accomplish their Master Plan a few years earlier. It may not be til 2021-2022, if ever, that they would be able to get the price point of the base Model Y down to $35k and still turn a profit. (Note that Model 3 is not there yet either; the base model won't be available til 2019, and may have razor-thin profit margins at first.)

That said, I'm looking forward to the Model Y as well! It can't come soon enough.

 

[Akikiki]

As my reservation gets closer to crunch time for order, does anyone else wish the Model 3 was a mid sized SUV?

Ridiculous question. As Judge Judy says, "I could have been 5'10, I am not."

 

[Visscher]

Go to any mall parking lot. 80% of the vehicles are SUVs. Tesla made their point with the performance of the Model S, that an electric sedan could out-perform a gasoline powered one.

The Model 3 needed to be a car that SELLS, and today a car that sells is an SUV. I know, I know, 465.000 reservations are a lot of sales, but what happens after that initial rush of buyers who would take ANY Tesla that was in their price range? The MY better be ready, and it better be good. Not sure another CUV will cut it, either.

What will happen is that the crossover- based on the M3 skateboard - will roll down the same assembly line with the same parts but with a higher price/profit. They say it will not, but I'm sure it will transition to that as people would rather have the chevy bolt style upright seating and trunk than the model3 but they had to do the M3 to make a car with convincing specs.

 

[BerTX]

First, I don't think that your opinion will sway Tesla a whole lot. They have smart people working for them, and their track record of making the right decision seems to be pretty good. The Model Y is supposed to be based on the 3, so it seems it will be a crossover. The X is the SUV. "Better be ready??" After a dozen years watching Tesla, I think they'll be ready. They'll be selling future vehicles for a long time.

Of course, Tesla will fail because it doesn't see the market as you do . How does anyone know that these "initial" buyers will slack off? Traditionally, a person buys a Tesla, takes it home, the neighbors see it, and at least one of them puts in an order, maybe two. That's the way Tesla advertises. Sales increase every week. People want the 3 because they saw the S and X.

Chill. It's just an opinion. That's what was requested.

 

[Seesaw]

Understand the arguments against a SUV. Just figured with a thick battery in the floor, electric vehicles suit being a SUV better as you can maximise room by making it taller. A good way to also maximise the footprint.

Sounds like not many Model 3s are being used as family cars at the moment, it may be a case of deferring and waiting for the Model Y version.



With people with a Model 3 how do you find getting kids in and out of child seats?

 

[DrDabbles]

People want the 3 because they saw the S and X.

I have to admit, I thought EVs were a bit of a joke until the initial Roadster came out. It had decent rage, it was quick, and it looked like a normal sports car. It wasn't some goofy, cobbled together, half hearted attempt at something new. My opinion of EVs started to change almost immediately. By the time I rode in my first Model S in 2013, the game had completely changed. With that car, there was an option to replace your daily driver with a fully battery powered EV. It had seating for 5 or more, it had a great range, it looked like a normal luxury sedan, and it was something you could drive every day, all year, anywhere in the US. At that moment, I knew my next car would be an EV.

Where the Model S (and X) sold me on the Model 3, though, was appearance. Even though the S and the X look like normal cars, with no intentionally zany designs, I just didn't like how the Model S looked. It's just my personal preference, and I don't expect anybody to share it, but when the Model 3 reveal happened, I was so happy to see a battery EV I could afford, I would want to drive, and I liked its design. I put my reservation in before the reveal event even started, but once I saw the car on stage I knew I'd wait however long it took to deliver. And now here I am. Surfing EV forums like some kind of dirty hippy.

 

[Daniel in SD]

They probably should have but I'm glad they didn't! I would have preferred a wagon option though.
It's possible that sedans still sell better worldwide but I've heard that crossovers are getting popular in Europe now too.
BTW how is a Model X an SUV, not a crossover? To me it's closer to a minivan than an SUV...

 

[TT97]

BTW how is a Model X an SUV, not a crossover? To me it's closer to a minivan than an SUV...

Technically, the Model X in a crossover (as will the Model Y). Although the terms are often used interchangeably, an SUV has a body-on-frame construction while crossovers are unibody. All Teslas are unibody construction.

There are less and less SUVs with many manufacturers changing their models to unibody (the Ford Explorer has been unibody construction since 2011 so technically also a crossover now).

 

[McRat]

'S' UV's are really tall hatchback passenger cars. Not sporty in general so I don't use the 'S'. Slower and lower range due to aero drag; no thanks. A hatchback sedan would be nice, but I understand why the Model 3 is not that.

The Sport in SUV is a secondary adjective, not to confused with the word 'sports' when it comes to cars.

It is a utility vehicle to assist in sporting activities. Like adventures, surfing, soccer, mountain climbing, bicycle riding, hunting, etc. Yes, I know what they badge as SUVs today often aren't.

Would you take a Model 3 down a rain-rutted fireroad? Through sand? Gravel roads? Put a bunch of muddy people/dogs in it? Haul a trailer for the gear? Dirt roads in snow country?

Sedan sales in all US segments are tanking and have been for awhile. "SUV" sales are rising to replace them. Because they can be used as a car, or sometimes a light truck.

But fashion comes into play as well. There was the station wagon phase, the full-sized Van stage, the mini-truck phase, the mini-van phase, the SUV phase, and now the C/SUV phase. People want to be seen a C/SUV. It's jewelry as much as transportation. But to be honest, a mini-van is more suitable from a utility standpoint, and 'real SUVs' aren't the big sellers. It's the cars that look like SUVs that more desirable.

 

[rhaekar]

I'd prefer a sport wagon but America really hates wagons for some reason.

 

[Saghost]

The base $35k Model 3 will not have the all-glass roof; it's part of the Premium Upgrade Package.

Tesla's Master Plan has always been about making a "mass market" ($35k) vehicle as soon as possible. Model 3 is probably at least $2-3k cheaper to manufacture than an equivalent Model Y, partially because it's several hundred pounds lighter, and also because Elon has indicated that Model Y will have falcon-wing doors, which are not cheap. Also, the base Model Y will likely have AWD.

As such, going with the sedan first probably allows Tesla to accomplish their Master Plan a few years earlier. It may not be til 2021-2022, if ever, that they would be able to get the price point of the base Model Y down to $35k and still turn a profit. (Note that Model 3 is not there yet either; the base model won't be available til 2019, and may have razor-thin profit margins at first.)

That said, I'm looking forward to the Model Y as well! It can't come soon enough.

This. SUVs are inherently less efficient than sedans - bigger cross sectional areas, higher drag coefficients, and more mass to move.

Because of that, you need a bigger battery pack for the same range, so Tesla can't make a $35k SUV that's competitive with their $35k sedan this year.

Rather than introduce a higher priced SUV this year, they introduced the sedan first, to build the company and market and continue driving costs down. That will let them make the CUV in a few years to compete in that market effectively - and we've already seen reports that they'll start building at the end of next year (not necessarily the start of consumer production, though.)

The pickup market is even tougher in terms of power/energy needed, which is why Tesla left it for last, even though it's one of the biggest markets and the biggest profit margin for a lot of ICE manufacturers.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Technically, the Model X in a crossover (as will the Model Y). Although the terms are often used interchangeably, an SUV has a body-on-frame construction while crossovers are unibody. All Teslas are unibody construction.

There are less and less SUVs with many manufacturers changing their models to unibody (the Ford Explorer has been unibody construction since 2011 so technically also a crossover now).

What about the XJ Jeep Cherokee? Unibody and definitely an SUV I guess it's one of those I know it when I see it things.

I actually feel like the Tesla architecture is more suited to CUVs because the battery raises the floor height so much that back seat comfort is severely compromised in both the Model S and Model 3. I would consider buying a Model Y if it handles as well as the Model 3.

 

[TT97]

What about the XJ Jeep Cherokee? Unibody and definitely an SUV

15 Cars You Can Drive Forever (Tab 15)

As the first small crossover in the U.S., it did not have traditional body-on-frame construction of a traditional SUV.

 

[SageBrush]

The base $35k Model 3 will not have the all-glass roof; it's part of the Premium Upgrade Package.

Tesla's Master Plan has always been about making a "mass market" ($35k) vehicle as soon as possible. Model 3 is probably at least $2-3k cheaper to manufacture than an equivalent Model Y, partially because it's several hundred pounds lighter, and also because Elon has indicated that Model Y will have falcon-wing doors, which are not cheap. Also, the base Model Y will likely have AWD.

As such, going with the sedan first probably allows Tesla to accomplish their Master Plan a few years earlier. It may not be til 2021-2022, if ever, that they would be able to get the price point of the base Model Y down to $35k and still turn a profit. (Note that Model 3 is not there yet either; the base model won't be available til 2019, and may have razor-thin profit margins at first.)

That said, I'm looking forward to the Model Y as well! It can't come soon enough.

There is a first principles issue at play here: the battery cost to make a $35k car required a Cd of 0.24 in 2018. That is not available in a CUV/SUV format.

It follows that Tesla battery cost will have to fall ~ 20% before a 0.28 Cd CUV will be built.

 

[Daniel in SD]

15 Cars You Can Drive Forever (Tab 15)

As the first small crossover in the U.S., it did not have traditional body-on-frame construction of a traditional SUV.

I vehicle with solid front and rear axles and a transfer case with low range cannot be a crossover. I don't care what anyone says. haha

There is a first principles issue at play here: the battery cost to make a $35k car required a Cd of 0.24 in 2018. That is not available in a CUV/SUV format.

The Model X already has a Cd 0.24 but of course has a larger frontal area. Drag is the drag coefficient multiplied by the frontal area. I agree that efficiency is a good reason to make the sedan first.

 

[SageBrush]

The Model X already has a Cd 0.24

Good point, but the Cd would have increased at Model 3 vehicle lengths, all else being equal.

You are right though, the better point is that Tesla had to hit an efficiency goal to meet the $35k target. A 50-55 kWh battery is not enough for a CUV.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Originally SUVs were passenger vehicles on a truck chassis, now, it seems, anything with a hatch is called an SUV. If you are asking whether I wish Tesla had made a Chevy Bolt type vehicle rather than a Model 3... my answer is Noooooo.

 

[Seesaw]

I actually feel like the Tesla architecture is more suited to CUVs because the battery raises the floor height so much that back seat comfort is severely compromised in both the Model S and Model 3. I would consider buying a Model Y if it handles as well as the Model 3.

I suspect the Model 3 may be one of the last sedans in the mainstream EV market due to difficulty packaging a thick floor battery in a low body. In a way it may be a good point of difference as other car makers bring in EV SUVs.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I'd prefer a sport wagon but America really hates wagons for some reason.

Americans don't hate wagons. Americans have cheap gas so can afford large, tall vehicles.