Siemens new home-charging solution

[DeltaOne]

Haven't seen any talk of this new product here yet. Would be interested to hear this groups consensus.

Siemen's New Home-Charging Solution Means No Electric Panel Upgrades

No pricing yet, although Siemens says it will cost less than the typical home EV charger setup. I think the idea is that those with 100 amp service would use a 30 amp setup, those with 200 amp would use 50 (or 60?) amp.

 

[Sophias_dad]

There's a VERY narrow market for this. Even though it avoids the main panel upgrade, unless the electric company oversized the conductors coming to the meter, this device CAN'T ask for more power than the main panel(plus its EV breaker) could supply anyway. They might add a monitor to automatically turn down/off charging when the main panel takes enough current to the point where the EV can't have much/any, but that's not really a 'solution' to a small panel, and I think there are a few competing products doing that already.

It won't really save the consumer much from an electrician point of view, since very nearly the same work is needed once the wire leaves the meter location.

I'd much rather spend the money for a panel upgrade(if absolutely needed) or subpanel than this hacky solution.

 

[Hurricane4911]

IDK about this...
Is "panel upgrade" a whole new panel w/upgraded service or a 50 Amp breaker?

If my panel is suspect due to age/etc...I'd rather bring the whole service intake up to spec.

 

[Rocky_H]

Yes, I read an article on this yesterday.

this device CAN'T ask for more power than the main panel(plus its EV breaker) could supply anyway.

Well yeah, that's not the point.

They might add a monitor to automatically turn down/off charging when the main panel takes enough current to the point where the EV can't have much/any,

That's not "might". That is literally what this device is. It's basically the same as the DCC-9 that people recommend frequently here on this forum. It's monitoring the total usage on the service and only allocating as much as is available to the EV connection to stay within the total service capacity.

but that's not really a 'solution' to a small panel,

Eh? Yes it is.

and I think there are a few competing products doing that already.

Exactly. This is that same solution to a small panel.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Yes, I read an article on this yesterday.

Well yeah, that's not the point.


That's not "might". That is literally what this device is. It's basically the same as the DCC-9 that people recommend frequently here on this forum. It's monitoring the total usage on the service and only allocating as much as is available to the EV connection to stay within the total service capacity.


Eh? Yes it is.

Exactly. This is that same solution to a small panel.

Doing a bit more of a search beyond the linked article, I see now that its a DCC-9 in disguise.

It doesn't solve the last hundred feet issue, from the meter to the car, unless your meter is already right next to your driveway and your panel is far away from that, I don't expect it to sell much.

I just don't see this as saving the end user anything at all. Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I'll wager that this will cost more than an already-expensive DCC-9.

 

[Rocky_H]

I just don't see this as saving the end user anything at all.

Whaaaa? Haven't you seen the quotes people have gotten here for main service upgrades? They are frequently 5 to 10 thousand dollars! Doing this, even if it's $1K or $1.5K to set up would save a pretty significant amount.

Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I'll wager that this will cost more than an already-expensive DCC-9.

Well who knows between two competing similar products which would cost more? But speaking to the previous point, this "already expensive DCC-9" has a market, and there are certainly people who do buy it because it is a solution that avoids the FAR more expensive service upgrade choice.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I do see one potential upside to this solution over a DCC-9, assuming Siemens actually supplies the charge equipment itself(presumably j1772a) this device could potentially throttle back the power delivered to the car rather than a hard cutoff as the DCC-9 would.

 

[Blue Stuff]

Well who knows between two competing similar products which would cost more? But speaking to the previous point, this "already expensive DCC-9" has a market, and there are certainly people who do buy it because it is a solution that avoids the FAR more expensive service upgrade choice.

Each has its own issues so depending on your situation one might be better than the other. The DCC-9 is intended to be installed between the main breaker (disconnect) and a panel so won't work in many residences without panel upgrades. They show installs at multi-tenant locations which I assume is their sweet spot. The Siemens requires the power company to cooperate which can be a nightmare.

 

[Sophias_dad]

The Siemens requires the power company to cooperate which can be a nightmare.

According to Order Meter Collars - ConnectDER, there might currently (see what I did there?) be 11 states where at least SOME utility allows it. I'm not sure if I'd blame the power companies since its probably the state's electrical boards which do the deciding.

 

[Blue Stuff]

It looks like those 11 states approved the collar for PV (solar) use as that is what they company has been supporting. Powering an EVSE you would think is a lot simpler and would have easier approvals.

Keep in mind stupid things can hold up approvals. e.g. Meter cans can be ring or ringless. Areas that standardized on ringless will now have to support rings as that is how the meter is secured to the collar. They will have to decide what types of rings to support and then stock them on their trucks.

 

[hellnoICE]

Does Tesla plan to come out with a meter collar and smart wall charger? This could be a game changer for existing apartments/condos.

I've looked at DCC-9. The box is 12"x12"x7.5"; our condo electrical rooms do not have enough space, our building has over 100 units and several owners have EVs already.

The Siemens/ConnectDER system adds the circuit breaker/throttling functionality to the (smart) charger, so you don't need a separate box (DCC/sub-panel). The ConnectDER meter collar is proprietary and will only work with a Siemens smart charger. The system may be for sale by first quarter 2023 but it requires utility approval or state-level approval from regulators, so availability depends on where you live.

I'm not sure if the ConnectDER meter collars will fit in our meter stacks. The photos on their web site look like single-family solar applications, as usual, unconcerned about available space. I am interested in EV charging only, for multi-family homes; this is a huge market and has been sorely neglected.

 

[73Bruin]

Whaaaa? Haven't you seen the quotes people have gotten here for main service upgrades? They are frequently 5 to 10 thousand dollars! Doing this, even if it's $1K or $1.5K to set up would save a pretty significant amount.


Well who knows between two competing similar products which would cost more? But speaking to the previous point, this "already expensive DCC-9" has a market, and there are certainly people who do buy it because it is a solution that avoids the FAR more expensive service upgrade choice.

I am one of those people. I live in a 40 yr old townhome with 100amp service at the main which is in a HOA owned utility closet. The conduit leading to our unit's panel is buried under concrete and too small to allow new wiring to be pulled through it. The HOA's electrician who had previously installed my Tesla wall charger said that it would be prohibitively expensive (well over $10,000) to upgrade our 100amp service. We were doing a remodel and wanted AC installed but couldn't pass a load calc. The DCC-9 allowed us to have AC installed while keeping HWC and still pass a load calc review.

 

[Sophias_dad]

There was a report that Tesla is developing a wifi dongle that will monitor total panel loading and auto-turn-down the HPWC if it sees things getting too high. I assume its imitating another HPWC and using 'power sharing' features to reduce the commanded power. I have not seen any details personally.

 

[73Bruin]

There was a report that Tesla is developing a wifi dongle that will monitor total panel loading and auto-turn-down the HPWC if it sees things getting too high. I assume its imitating another HPWC and using 'power sharing' features to reduce the commanded power. I have not seen any details personally.

I don't see how this would work without having some device, far beyond a dongle, that is capable of monitoring the current flowing through the main.

 

[Sophias_dad]

I don't see how this would work without having some device, far beyond a dongle, that is capable of monitoring the current flowing through the main.

Yes, it would have a couple clamp-on coils to monitor the L1/L2 currents in the main panel.