What do you think caused this electrical fire?

[EatsShoots]

New home build 2020. Had electrician run 60 amp rated wire to a 50 amp breaker. I had assumed he would run copper, but he ran aluminum because it was cheaper for him (I didn't find out till after but whatever).

In the garage he did nothing so I personally added a NEMA 14-50 in early 2021. Put a Grizzl-e charger in and charged our 2020 nissan leaf until June of this year. It pulls up to 7 kWh, or 32 A steady. Socket (and this charger) should be able to handle 40 amp steady.

Got our Model 3 in June. It also only pulls also 7 kWh/32A max.

No issues until last week we get an alert that power to the charger stopped. Long story short here is the socket. I know very little. I will assume the 14-50 was not improperly built. Maybe the aluminum contracted/expanded itself out of the joint? I have no idea. I'm going to get a different electrician (this one was lazy in a number of areas including improperly fastening the aluminum to the original 50 amp breaker) to deal with this, but this could have been catastrophic.

 

[karkrazy]

Where did you get your 14-50 outlet from? Home Depot? Was it a Leviton? Outlets from big box stores are not designed for the continuous loads required for EV charging.

A quality outlet (i.e. Bryant) would be $80++. If you search the forum, there are plenty of suggestions on what outlets are good for EV’s and to stay away from the el cheapo outlets. Glad the damage wasn’t worse than it could have been.

 

[EatsShoots]

Where did you get your 14-50 outlet from? Home Depot? Was it a Leviton? Outlets from big box stores are not designed for the continuous loads required for EV charging.

A quality outlet (i.e. Bryant) would be $80++. If you search the forum, there are plenty of suggestions on what outlets are good for EV’s and to stay away from the el cheapo outlets. Glad the damage wasn’t worse than it could have been.

Yeah it was one of those places. $20 or whatever it was from home depot.

 

[spsheridan]

Just for clarification, were you using a Tesla 14-50 Adapter with a Tesla Mobile Connector for charging your Model 3? It's hard to tell from the photos.

 

[EatsShoots]

Just for clarification, were you using a Tesla 14-50 Adapter with a Tesla Mobile Connector for charging your Model 3? It's hard to tell from the photos.

Was using this charger: https://grizzl-e.com/products/grizzl-e-classic/ along with the Tesla J1772 adapter so that the charger will plug into the tesla.

 

[karkrazy]

Yeah it was one of those places. $20 or whatever it was from home depot.

Get a high quality outlet, get an electrician to check out the damage, fix whatever needs to be fixed, install the outlet and torque it to the right specs. Charge on!

Edit: aluminum wiring is fine… I’ve got a 40-50 ft run that was installed by the builder back in 2015. Works fine and just needs to be monitored. Won’t work with a Wall Connector but I’m not taking that little project on right now.

 

[jjrandorin]

New home build 2020. Had electrician run 60 amp rated wire to a 50 amp breaker. I had assumed he would run copper, but he ran aluminum because it was cheaper for him (I didn't find out till after but whatever).

In the garage he did nothing so I personally added a NEMA 14-50 in early 2021. Put a Grizzl-e charger in and charged our 2020 nissan leaf until June of this year. It pulls up to 7 kWh, or 32 A steady. Socket (and this charger) should be able to handle 40 amp steady.

Got our Model 3 in June. It also only pulls also 7 kWh/32A max.

No issues until last week we get an alert that power to the charger stopped. Long story short here is the socket. I know very little. I will assume the 14-50 was not improperly built. Maybe the aluminum contracted/expanded itself out of the joint? I have no idea. I'm going to get a different electrician (this one was lazy in a number of areas including improperly fastening the aluminum to the original 50 amp breaker) to deal with this, but this could have been catastrophic.

View attachment 980397


View attachment 980398

View attachment 980399

We would all be speculating, but likely causes:

1. Inexpensive / Cheap outlet
2. Connected outlet to aluminum wiring instead of making a pigtail and using a copper connection.
3. Improper / not enough torque on Wires going into cheap outlet
4. Aluminum expansion / contraction over time leading to more resistance and heat


This is one of those reasons why, when people start talking about stuff like in this thread from @MikeRTX about "I just used this adapter and punched through this wall", and people talk about "you shouldnt do that" and get "poo pooed", Only 8A on 240v? What am I doing wrong?


This type of thing is why. At least it was contained.

From everything I have read, those Grizzl-e's are solid, so I think there is little chance of that wall connector unit being the issue itself

 

[ATPMSD]

I'm going to get a different electrician

Excellent idea. While you are at it, ask him to confirm the wire is actually rated for a full 60-amp circuit. Not that you are using 60-amps, but you should know what you actually have.

 

[EatsShoots]

I am gonna contact an electrician off the certified tesla list and update this thread after.

 

[LoudMusic]

It's surprising to me that an outlet claiming to be rated for 50A isn't able to maintain 32A continuous. How did a product like that pass validation for being a 50A product? 32A is only 64% of max load - it should be able to maintain that without any issue at all.

My guess is it was a pisspoor installation with exceptionally loose wires, causing overheating behind the outlet. There appears to be more burn back there than in front.

Everyone should do their own inspection after an electrician does an installation like this. Just because they're certified doesn't mean they do a good job. And everyone makes mistakes. Shut off the breaker and test all the screws for tightness.

 

[ATPMSD]

I am gonna contact an electrician off the certified tesla list and update this thread after.

Do not assume electricians on the Tesla list are any better. A lot of them do not understand the requirements of EV charging - Tesla does not qualify people on the list! You will be better off posting a request for references. For example, here in Atlanta we have a Tesla Facebook group where people ask for referrals on any number of items.

 

[jjrandorin]

I am gonna contact an electrician off the certified tesla list and update this thread after.

Personally, I dont think there is anything at all special / magical about Tesla's listed electricians. They probably just paid a fee and certified some training course about being trained to install wall connectors.

You are not using a wall connector, so you dont need to worry about that. You should just be looking for a quality electrician who can evaluate what you have, repair / repalce the wiring, and properly install the outlet (after you buy a decent outlet and have it on hand for them to install).

You dont have to get the hubbel which I think is the most expensive one, but I would avoid a big box one. Even a big box one would be fine if you are not unplugging and re plugging it back in, and its installed with the proper torque, etc.

 

[jjrandorin]

It's surprising to me that an outlet claiming to be rated for 50A isn't able to maintain 32A continuous. How did a product like that pass validation for being a 50A product? 32A is only 64% of max load - it should be able to maintain that without any issue at all.

My guess is it was a pisspoor installation with exceptionally loose wires, causing overheating behind the outlet. There appears to be more burn back there than in front.

Everyone should do their own inspection after an electrician does an installation like this. Just because they're certified doesn't mean they do a good job. And everyone makes mistakes. Shut off the breaker and test all the screws for tightness.

According to the OP, the electrician did not install the outlet, they (the OP) did:

In the garage he did nothing so I personally added a NEMA 14-50 in early 2021.

 

[ATPMSD]

You dont have to get the hubbel which I think is the most expensive one

With all respect to our esteem moderator, I have never understood why people spend a fortune on a car then try to save a few bucks on the charging system. So why gamble? Spend the money. I suggest OP also check out the Hubbell outlet.

 

[jjrandorin]

With all respect to our esteem moderator, I have never understood why people spend a fortune on a car then try to save a few bucks on the charging system. So why gamble? Spend the money. I suggest OP also check out the Hubbell outlet.

Because you can get the Bryant one which is made by the same company that makes the hubbel one. I mean, for the 14-50 I had put on my back loads side for my solar + powerwall install, I bought a hubbel, and it was around $80 when I bought it. Thats what I wanted, but that doesnt mean its necessary to spend $80 to get a safely installed outlet.

Use case matters.

 

[ATPMSD]

safely installed outlet.

And to your point, installation matters.

 

[EatsShoots]

The detail picture you see is precisely as it was when I pulled it from the wall so the aluminum connector had basically burned itself through somehow. Maybe a sharp angle bent caused a weak point?

I dunno I’ll update when somebody comes by. I don’t love the aluminum at all— particularly since the original electrician couldn’t even seem to snuggled up properly to the breaker (used to trip in 2021 shortly into a charge until I figured it was because it wasn’t tight enough so I tightened it and that stopped it—was producing a lot of heat at the panel). I know there are already threads about aluminum so I don’t want to rehash that heheh.

 

[ThomasD]

This may be the reason some electricians charge more to install an outlet to charge a car vs a regular 50 amp outlet. If I was a Certified Electrician I would use the good stuff. Yes the markup cost gets passed on to the consumer but I would rather pay a little bit more for a quality job with quality parts used.

 

[father_of_6]

$49 AMZ...

https://www.amazon.com/Bryant-Electric-9650FR-Straight-Receptacle/dp/B003A2R9RM

 

[father_of_6]

It's surprising to me that an outlet claiming to be rated for 50A isn't able to maintain 32A continuous. How did a product like that pass validation for being a 50A product? 32A is only 64% of max load - it should be able to maintain that without any issue at all.

I agree. Although I've read enough posts recommending Hubbell or Bryant receptacles to know that the big box cheapos don't cut it, it just doesn't make sense to me.

It's mind blowing that with all the complex electrical code, an outlet is allowed to be sold for a 50amp electrical supply that will catch fire if a device is repeatedly plugged/unplugged. Or the outlet isn't really good for continuous load.

The UL shouldn't issue their stamp for high amperage outlets that aren't up for the task. For that matter, I've come across quite a few 110v receptacles that feel rather shoddy... thin sheet metal for the screw plate such that the outlet twists from side to side easily. Fire starting garbage.

Regulation is not doing it's job.