Silverado EV

[Krugerrand]

Cybertruck withOUT towing ~250+ miles of range ** currently ~250 kW fast charging

Just data point - People are getting 300+ miles of range from the CT. The AT tires cut into range on the CT just as they do for fossil fuel trucks. With a regular AS tire I’ve seen reports of people getting more than the stated 340 on AS by Tesla.

Obviously, temperature, wind, topography affect range - again, just as it does on fossil fuel vehicles.

I’ve actually compared my gas pickup mileage in various conditions and on different tires. My fuel efficiency is affected almost to the same degree as in an EV. IE., I lost 21% fuel efficiency in my gas truck just by swapping out from an AS to a mid-aggressive AT tire that was reviewed as being one of the more fuel efficient AT tires. I lose easily another 20%+ when temps go below 32F. Etc., etc…

 

[scottf200]

EV trucks are (were) an economic challenge until battery costs drop to some level.

"if not now, when ..."

via Battery Prices Are Falling Again, and That’s a Good Thing - Inside Climate News

 

[Suns_PSD]

First of all, Tesla has NEVER made an unprofitable vehicle. EVER. In their ENTIRE history. I assure you, they won’t have started now with the CT. So my answer is zero.

How many cartons of eggs are you willing to wear if Tesla says the CT was profitable in their first quarter of production ramp? Would you wear even one egg if they reported in a couple of weeks that they’re at breakeven already?

Your answer is likely to also be zero based on your complete obliviousness to Tesla.

How do they do it? No proper interior except a $99 iPad attached to the dash, small battery packs, cheap cast wheels, poor fit and finish and no paint on the CT.

How do they sell them and make money at only $100K a pop? Amazing!

 

[coleAK]

Just data point - People are getting 300+ miles of range from the CT. The AT tires cut into range on the CT just as they do for fossil fuel trucks. With a regular AS tire I’ve seen reports of people getting more than the stated 340 on AS by Tesla.

Obviously, temperature, wind, topography affect range - again, just as it does on fossil fuel vehicles.

I’ve actually compared my gas pickup mileage in various conditions and on different tires. My fuel efficiency is affected almost to the same degree as in an EV. IE., I lost 21% fuel efficiency in my gas truck just by swapping out from an AS to a mid-aggressive AT tire that was reviewed as being one of the more fuel efficient AT tires. I lose easily another 20%+ when temps go below 32F. Etc., etc…

What truck do you have? What was your tire swap? Did you go from 30-32” tires on 18” to 34” tires on 24” rims? No way in a million years fuel efficiency is reduced the same in an ICE truck vs EV. Just based on the pure physics. An ICE truck is rolling along using 1800-2500 wh/mi when you increase by say 600 wh/mi pulling a small camper you see a 30% or so reduction in mpg. An EV truck pulling that same camper also sees a 600 wh/mi increase but they are rolling along at 400-600 wh/mi at baseline so see a much larger proportional range reduction 50-60%.

As for winter in a EV running the heat is the largest contribution to range reduction in the winter as the heat pulls from the battery. In an ICE truck the engine is putting off heat loss regardless of outside temp. I don’t see a reduction in MPG in my ICE until temps get well below 0F, -20 or -30F sure but the reduction is do to keeping it running when I go into places and warming it up. At those temps I’m 50-70% range reduction in the Tesla.

Yesterday, temps around 20F, 3-4” of fresh unplowed snow. I made the same drive ~15 miles round trip in both my model 3 and LX570. In the LX I got pretty much exactly what I get in the summer (14-15 mpg) and in the Tesla I saw a 50% increase in wh/mi over summer or about a 30-35% range reduction. Took these pictures this am (LX shoes 30F but it was in my garage), April 10th, I still have 5 feet of packed snow in my yard and had to snowblower my driveway yesterday.

 

[coleAK]

First of all, Tesla has NEVER made an unprofitable vehicle. EVER. In their ENTIRE history. I assure you, they won’t have started now with the CT. So my answer is zero.

How many cartons of eggs are you willing to wear if Tesla says the CT was profitable in their first quarter of production ramp? Would you wear even one egg if they reported in a couple of weeks that they’re at breakeven already?

Your answer is likely to also be zero based on your complete obliviousness to Tesla.

Do you believe this crap? What about the roadster? Model S? Model X? Tesla lost money on every vehicle sold until some time in 2019.

Tesla was circling the drain up until the model 3 release. And would long be under if the 3/Y hadn’t been a large success. Elon was begging Apple (or someone else) to buy Tesla in 2017-2018.

 

[Earl]

Tesla lost money on every vehicle sold until some time in 2019.

That's total ignorant (or other) nonsense.

Tesla as a company lost money, yes. But it was on the company, not the vehicles since they were plowing everything back into growth instead of turning it out as profit. This is typical and expected for startups. They had great margin on everything, even most Roadsters due to all of the upsell features that were in high demand.
Even as a company, Tesla showed they could be profitable during the Roadster days when they quit plowing their margins back into growth.

 

[Earl]

"if not now, when ..."

via Battery Prices Are Falling Again, and That’s a Good Thing - Inside Climate News

Assuming a 200 KWh battery is required for a truck with barely-acceptable hauling/towing capability: With this data, that is $28,700 for the battery in 2023. Can one make money selling a pickup with this huge cost today? I don't know. Hopefully, GM does.

 

[Earl]

$99 iPad

Show me a $99 iPad that will operate at the temperatures inside a car during the summer and can be seen in bright sunlight. Clearly, you know little about industrial grade hardware.

The biggest joke is that you claim to be from space where the hardware constraints are even tougher.

 

[alexgr]

Do you believe this crap? What about the roadster? Model S? Model X? Tesla lost money on every vehicle sold until some time in 2019.

Tesla was circling the drain up until the model 3 release. And would long be under if the 3/Y hadn’t been a large success. Elon was begging Apple (or someone else) to buy Tesla in 2017-2018.

You are incorrect. Tesla's AUTOMOTIVE revenue always stayed above automotive cost. Here is a plot for you. The lowest point was 3.8% (still positive) in 2012.

 

[alexgr]

First of all, Tesla has NEVER made an unprofitable vehicle. EVER. In their ENTIRE history. I assure you, they won’t have started now with the CT. So my answer is zero.

How many cartons of eggs are you willing to wear if Tesla says the CT was profitable in their first quarter of production ramp? Would you wear even one egg if they reported in a couple of weeks that they’re at breakeven already?

Your answer is likely to also be zero based on your complete obliviousness to Tesla.

I was first skeptical about your statement of all Tesla cars being profitable. Then I checked the numbers, and you are correct. Tesla could stop investing in expansion and R&D and keep pocketing cash at any time in their history.

 

[Nack]

First of all, Tesla has NEVER made an unprofitable vehicle. EVER. In their ENTIRE history. I assure you, they won’t have started now with the CT. So my answer is zero.

How many cartons of eggs are you willing to wear if Tesla says the CT was profitable in their first quarter of production ramp? Would you wear even one egg if they reported in a couple of weeks that they’re at breakeven already?

Your answer is likely to also be zero based on your complete obliviousness to Tesla.

I will have no problem admitting I am wrong if that is the case.

I would want to see the numbers for CT only, not just mixed in with everything else to say as a whole it was profitable.

 

[Earl]

I would want to see the numbers for CT only, not just mixed in with everything else to say as a whole it was profitable.

It's way too early to know this since the CT isn't up to full rate production yet. I'm sure they are losing money on the CT now as they trickle out slowly and, I'm sure, tweak the performance of the assembly line, supply chain, and possibly even the design.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Show me a $99 iPad that will operate at the temperatures inside a car during the summer and can be seen in bright sunlight. Clearly, you know little about industrial grade hardware.

The biggest joke is that you claim to be from space where the hardware constraints are even tougher.

It was a joke Earl, but it's funny that you latched on to being able to see the screen in sunlight as your only complaint with my joke/ analysis. Which brings up another cheap ass thing, those roofs, which are awful, in TX anyways. Earl: ' Yes the cars are crap but that special bright screen monitor costs at least $159 sucker!' LOL never mind that Tesla shafts you on 5 figures of battery capacity on every model across the lineup.

 

[Suns_PSD]

It's way too early to know this since the CT isn't up to full rate production yet. I'm sure they are losing money on the CT now as they trickle out slowly and, I'm sure, tweak the performance of the assembly line, supply chain, and possibly even the design.

All vehicles only cost a fraction of their actual production cost to build. The thing is that you have to amortize engineering, design, building plants, reduction of assets that could have been used for other projects, etc. which is why everyone needs to sell a lot to be profitable.

 

[Nack]

again, dont get 4680 name for dimensions mixed up with the chem, which is the LFP acronym lith/iron/phos
I think only Tesla is using that size as only NCM chem (we know in the CT, maybe the MYRWD/but unsure, maybe the Semi/but unsure, all cases NCM chem)
CATL and LG will be contracted by Tesla to build 4680s and should be using the same chem, NCM
Tesla is using LFP batteries in the Powerwall 3 and will be expanding the use in megapacks
Lithium prismatic cells (LFP) are named for their prismatic shape, which is rectangular like a box. Not cylindrical like 4680, 2170, etc.

Thanks. I know 4680 is the form factor and NMC or LFP etc are the chemistries in the battery. I was under the impression (maybe incorrectly) Tesla was looking to make LFP versions of the 4680 as LFP can be in cylindrical cell form factor. They can also be in pouch and prismatic too.

Not sure what the form factor LFP models have, so thats probably part of my issue. I assumed they were similar and the packs may be radically different

 

[Earl]

you latched on to being able to see the screen in sunlight as your only complaint

I also mentioned the temperature. Try to use your iPad while it is sitting on the dash of your car in TX in the summer.

cheap ass thing, those roofs, which are awful, in TX anyways

I actually like the glass. Sure, its a cost cutting measure but it also makes the car feel more roomy.
I just wear a hat when I drive in hot places at noon. You can also get shades to put in.

 

[coleAK]

I was first skeptical about your statement of all Tesla cars being profitable. Then I checked the numbers, and you are correct. Tesla could stop investing in expansion and R&D and keep pocketing cash at any time in their history.

But when they didn’t stop, they continued to lose $$$ on every vehicle sold.

You can say all day that each product sold is profitable but when the company is losing money even due to expansion and RnD, they are not. They couldn’t expand and develop without the money they were investing into “non-vehicles”.

Heck of you just count raw materials almost evening is profitable

Your argument isn’t profits, it is creative explanations of book keeping.

 

[alexgr]

But when they didn’t stop, they continued to lose $$$ on every vehicle sold.

You can say all day that each product sold is profitable but when the company is losing money even due to expansion and RnD, they are not. They couldn’t expand and develop without the money they were investing into “non-vehicles”.

Heck of you just count raw materials almost evening is profitable

Your argument isn’t profits, it is creative explanations of book keeping.

I can only say that productive dialog would benefit from better education on financial reporting and audit practices.