what type of home automation do you use? I have zwave and wonder how you get the trigger that the power has switched to the PW so that you can automate a reaction?
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Solar + PW Installed - question about breakers
- Thread starter SoCal Jimmy
- Start date
what type of home automation do you use? I have zwave and wonder how you get the trigger that the power has switched to the PW so that you can automate a reaction?
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Our largest load is our two Tesla Wall Connectors - configured for 48A charging - about 10.5KW each. They aren't connected through our Tesla Backup Gateway.
Inside the house, the ovens are the largest load - and those will never be run when we aren't at home. So if we suspect we'll have a long outage while we were using the oven, we would turn the oven off.
The other large loads are our pool pumps and HVAC systems. We have the Pentair Screenlogic interface so we can control the pumps remotely if an outage hits while we aren't at home. And our 3 HVAC systems are controlled by Honeywell T9 thermostats via a their mobile app.
If the outage is brief (under an hour), we will have enough reserve power in the PowerWalls to avoid having to manually shut off any devices.
But if we suspect a long-term outage (like a hurricane), we'll be prepared to shut off non-essential systems immediately after losing power, and stretch our 4 PowerWalls as far as we can, hopefully with enough sun to recharge them.
Now that we have the Tesla app showing current power consumption in the house, it's easy to see how much power individual devices are using - and identify areas where improvements could be made (such as a more efficient variable speed pool pump or converting lights that are on frequently to LED).
Inside the house, the ovens are the largest load - and those will never be run when we aren't at home. So if we suspect we'll have a long outage while we were using the oven, we would turn the oven off.
The other large loads are our pool pumps and HVAC systems. We have the Pentair Screenlogic interface so we can control the pumps remotely if an outage hits while we aren't at home. And our 3 HVAC systems are controlled by Honeywell T9 thermostats via a their mobile app.
If the outage is brief (under an hour), we will have enough reserve power in the PowerWalls to avoid having to manually shut off any devices.
But if we suspect a long-term outage (like a hurricane), we'll be prepared to shut off non-essential systems immediately after losing power, and stretch our 4 PowerWalls as far as we can, hopefully with enough sun to recharge them.
Now that we have the Tesla app showing current power consumption in the house, it's easy to see how much power individual devices are using - and identify areas where improvements could be made (such as a more efficient variable speed pool pump or converting lights that are on frequently to LED).
I don't do it at the breaker level. For the two AC units, I use Ecobee thermostats and can control them via the Smarthings hub and app. I setup a virtual switch (called SRP PEAK) in SmartThings that is scheduled to turn on when my utility peak periods turn on. Then via smarthings I trigger loads to turn off via z-wave/zigbee wall switches and outlets whenever my "SRP PEAK" virtual switch turns on. I've been doing this for a few years now, with no significant a snafus - even before I had Solar & PWs, just to manage peak loads and take advantage of plans with cheaper off peak rates.
In the case of the the 3 AC units, I trigger the Ecobees thermostats (via Smarthings) to turn off/on based on that same "SRP PEAK" virtual switch trigger. My electric car I've just scheduled via the both the car's built in charging scheduler, and the schedule built into my charger, to never charge during peak hours. Last year I also used smartthigns to lower the temperature an extra bit in the house for the hour or two before peak period hits to precool the house, then turn them off right before peak hits.
Also, in the summer, when I can't go the entire afternoon 8 hour peak period without any AC, I use Smarththings & Ecobees to schedule (on/off) the AC to run at max for 30 minutes every hour, straddling 30 minute demand periods. If the temp reaches my set level they may run less than 30 minutes, but never more as I force them off after 30 minutes. This has the effect of carefully controlling the AC to only run at most for 15 minutes during any given 30 minute peak demand period (because I schedule the 30 minute max AC window to straddle two different 30 minute peak periods, by 15 minutes each), at the same time it keeps the house reasonably cool even during the 115 degree months - while controlling loads in a very predictable manner. I never go more than 30 minutes before AC can turn on again, but never more than 30 minutes once on.
For the few hottest days of summer it might get a little warm, but since I know exactly how much max grid load I'll put on the system with the AC units, since it's precisely scheduled, I can manually override if the PWs have plenty of remaining juice (like for a party or event at the house that might occur during peak hours). Also with 4 PWs so far I've had more than enough PW juice to cover running the AC for 30 minutes each hour, but in the weird case where for some reasons the PWs get low on charge, and/or I'm not paying attention this still carefully controls the max load that would hit the grid during any 30 minute demand period, and thus the max peak demand charge that my Utility will hit me with - but so far I've been able to eliminate all peak period usage with these scheduling strategies so I haven't had to worry about demand charges.
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aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
I had my PWs installed yesterday and the Tesla guys recommended just toggling my heat pumps off via a controllable thermostat vs the breaker method. My heat pumps are three panels deep so they were not able to separate them out of the backup panel. While I can manually toggle them off when I am home, I would like a more automated system. Right now they stated if they tried to come on when in backup mode they would shut the PWs down and I could be in an endless loop of restarts until they were manually shut off.
I have an ISY994i Controller that I could probably use to toggle some sort of smart thermostat based on the state of the grid side. TBD on how to do all of this unless someone else reading this has such a configuration.
I have an ISY994i Controller that I could probably use to toggle some sort of smart thermostat based on the state of the grid side. TBD on how to do all of this unless someone else reading this has such a configuration.
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
mspohr
Well-Known Member
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Different use case: In my scenario I want to detect when there is no grid side power (probably can poll the PW API every second) and turn off the heat pumps (via the thermostats). I will probably just run an app on my NAS (it's on a UPS and is on the backup side so it will never go down as long as the PWs are alive).
I will look at the Ecobees thermostats to see if they would work for that aspect. Right now I am using White Rogers programmable thermostats but they are not networked. Don't want a Nest device in my home.
Can you just run one or two of the thermostat wires through a relay that is normally held closed by power from the grid side of your Backup Gateway?
Cheers, Wayne
aesculus
Still Trying to Figure This All Out
Nope. PW stuff about 100 feet from house. Heat Pumps are on a sub panel three panels deep about 200 feet from PWs. No way to get any extra wires to thermostats.
I think I can query the state of the grid from the PW API.
Need to be able to toggle thermostats off/on via some sort of private (ie not Google, Apple or any other cloud based offering) API via wifi. Still researching this.
AFCI breakers are only required for bedroom outlets and GFI outlets are required for bathrooms, AFAIK. Our Powerwall installer installed the proper breakers in the new panel so that it would pass inspection.
Your info is out of date by several years. The California Electrical Code now requires them almost everywhere: "All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas"
And kitchen countertops, outdoors, unfinished basements, garages, and probably a couple other places I've forgotten.
Cheers, Wayne
I wanted to circle back to this question you asked, regarding ethernet connection, @jboy210
In preparation for wanting an ethernet connection as well as wireless and cellular, I setup an extra router I had as a mesh network node. As an aside, I have Asus brand routers and they allow you to use them as regular routers, access points, or a note in an asus mesh network. In this configuration, you can use wired or wireless backhaul for the connection to the main router, and are broadcasting the same SSID etc as if it were an access point.
Anyway, I set this up in the garage a week before PW install, and tested to ensure I was happy with connection strength, speed, etc. Goal was to be able to get an ethernet connection to the gateway.
When installers arrived yesterday, I let them know I wanted to be able to use ethernet for the PWs but also wanted wireless and cellular activated as a fall back, in case I decide to move that router, etc. They had no issues with this and simply asked me if I had an extra, short ethernet cord as they normally activate only wireless and cellular unless ethernet is right there.
I gave them a 7ft ethernet cord and near the end of the installation, they called me out to put in my wifi SSID and password, and activated all three connections for me. They told me it fails over if one connection goes away to the "next best" one that has a connection.
So, no issue having ethernet in addition to wifi, and the ethernet cable I had was regular, Cat5e not outdoor rated or anything, just regular Cat5e.
Jeremy3292
Active Member
Old thread I know, but is what happened to the OP of this thread what happened to me?
I don't understand this diagram below. I have a 200 amp main panel being put into a 125 amp panel? And one of my Powerwalls (without an inverter) isn't in the new 125 amp backup panel at all?
I don't understand this diagram below. I have a 200 amp main panel being put into a 125 amp panel? And one of my Powerwalls (without an inverter) isn't in the new 125 amp backup panel at all?
No. Note that your (E) loads are not moving, they are still in the 200A service panel. The new 30A and 100A double pole breakers in your existing 200A service panel are for connecting the new power sources, not any loads.
The new 125A Load Center is just a combiner panel for two of those new sources. They could have instead used (2) 50A and (1) 30A double pole breakers for the new sources and omitted the new load center, but that would have required two additional spaces in your existing 200A service panel, and I infer only 4 spaces were available.
Cheers, Wayne
Jeremy3292
Active Member
Thanks Wayne. It looks I have room for 5 more double breakers, see pic attached. This is a new house with a 200 amp main panel and 225 amp bus bar for reference.
Can you explain what the point of this new 125 amp load center is? Is it bc they gave me two PW+ each with a 7.6kW AC inverter (ironic bc I only have 9.315 kW DC solar array)?
Ah, I see now, it's to combine the two PV sources so that a single AC disconnect for the solar may be installed, which may be something your POCO (power company) requires.
If you had only (1) PW+ and (2) PW2s, then you wouldn't need the 125A load center, but you'd use two more spaces in your service panel.
Cheers, Wayne
