I could almost bet on that. Porsche is one of the most desired brands in the world, and thus far has always maintained its premium. Also, this will be their first EV, so has a chance of becoming some sort of collectors' item. The real world spy photos suggest that it looks a Panamera with an RC engine, though. A huge disappointment imo. Probably worth even 'what was promised and what will be delivered' meme.
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Speculation on Model S/X Pricing Strategy
- Thread starter Saimaannorppa
- Start date
I could almost bet on that. Porsche is one of the most desired brands in the world, and thus far has always maintained its premium. Also, this will be their first EV, so has a chance of becoming some sort of collectors' item. The real world spy photos suggest that it looks a Panamera with an RC engine, though. A huge disappointment imo. Probably worth even 'what was promised and what will be delivered' meme.
With volume of 20k sold per year it won’t be a rare collectors item (except if they make exclusive supercar versions), and without good long trip utility, it will be an option for less people. I expect that the price will be relatively high as Porsche can’t afford loss making cars, so there is room to drop.
People expected Model S signature to become a collectors item, but has not really happened yet. Roadster has such status, but the number of cars is very limited.
How much are we betting? I’ll take your p100d.
Here's some speculation (by Motor Authority) of Taycan's pricing in the US. If those are in the right ballpark the starting price is not that bad but the top trips are way more expensive than S is now after the price cut. I'm quite certain that at least Taycan's first generation will face considerable depreciation when new and more capable models will be introduced. I think that at current price level S is quite good choice.
"Prices are expected to mirror those of the Panamera, so it should start around $87,000 and reach $150,000 or even $200,000 in its top trim."
If it looked a bit more like the concept version I could bet my Tesla for that. Now...not so sure. I was on the brink of reserving that before Tesla prices dropped. Fortunately I did not, as the design was so much watered down. Unless they just test the technology in Panamera's chassis and come out with more aggressive design with the real deal, I will be happier with my Tesla than with Porsche.
What comes to the technical reliability of Taycan, the design has taken so long that I think it will be in line with typical German engineering. I am very confident that it will be more reliable than my Tesla. Still, I bought Tesla chiefly for performance, and just secondarily for the green values, or for reliability. On the other hand, if I wanted just the performance, I should have kept the GT-R and switched to Roadster 2.0 in a few years of time.
And agreed, all these BEVs are so simple that their prices are bound to come down. It is just that what brands keep their value better. Tesla is such a niche brand that I have low expectations.
What comes to the technical reliability of Taycan, the design has taken so long that I think it will be in line with typical German engineering. I am very confident that it will be more reliable than my Tesla. Still, I bought Tesla chiefly for performance, and just secondarily for the green values, or for reliability. On the other hand, if I wanted just the performance, I should have kept the GT-R and switched to Roadster 2.0 in a few years of time.
And agreed, all these BEVs are so simple that their prices are bound to come down. It is just that what brands keep their value better. Tesla is such a niche brand that I have low expectations.
Well, I expect your 2019 Tesla Model S will have zero flaws, as my 2017 has had. Its hard to beat that, even for Porsche.
Audi éTron was also a long hatched German EV and it turned out to be almost embarrassing in terms of technical quality, software and design thinking. Reliability is to be proved, and not much of the track record speaks for it.
Also things like TSI, DSG and PDK are German engineering...
Hard to believe here, but Tesla is already much less niche than Jaguar or Porsche, and on a firm trend to be more common than premium Germans in comparable car segments. It also used to maintain value better than ICEs until they started undercutting the pricing.
Reliability reports are a bit more dire for Tesla. According to CNBC article referring to Consumer Reports it was the 3rd weakest brand in terms of reliability. The web is full of commentary on CR's way to measure reliability, and let's not go into that here. But it should be a better indication than anecdotal evidence. I am not saying that it is or even that I think it is terrible (at least yet); I just bought one despite the negatives I have seen in the web. I think it is now at a rather good price point in Finland and competitive with ICE vehicles. But it is not a god-like miracle maker, although the new Roadster may get pretty close.
I had also done due diligence on the interwebs before buying. I was pretty sure the car will have misaligned body panels, crappy paint etc. and pretty much all parts dropping on the road while on the way home. For some time, every morning it seemed a miracle that it still switched on. The truth may not be in oil sponsored media after all.
Model S is now a pretty much a different car than in the early days (or prefacelift), as all known problem parts have a further revision in use. I have not seen transparent and broken down statistics on reliability, which would take this into account.
If reliability was a real issue, the customer NPS would not be 96. Tesla NPS Score = 96 | NPS Benchmarks
Model S is now a pretty much a different car than in the early days (or prefacelift), as all known problem parts have a further revision in use. I have not seen transparent and broken down statistics on reliability, which would take this into account.
If reliability was a real issue, the customer NPS would not be 96. Tesla NPS Score = 96 | NPS Benchmarks
You can find endless rant about German cars on owner forums. Outliers always stand out as click-bait, but personally relevant conclusions are hard to make.
Good luck with your car.
Tesla has now made the adjustments to the Model S offering. At least in Finland:
- Standard Range is no longer available
- Long Range price increased about 4%
- Ludicrous (2,6s 0-100 km/h) is now a separate option for Performance like it's been in the US. Performance (3,2s 0-100 km/h) is today a bit cheaper than yesterday but Ludicrous is 10+ k€ more expensive.
To be honest, I thought that they would come with an excuse that they have found increasing efficiencies from elsewhere and this hike could be avoided. It seems I was wrong.
Good that we did not make the bet with Saimaannorppa.
Good that we did not make the bet with Saimaannorppa.
I must say that my trust on Tesla as an organized and trustworthy company and a car manufacturer has significantly diminished over the last few weeks due to all the nebulous changes to the model S product line and especially to the pricing. And yet I ordered my first Tesla last Sunday.
And yet I ordered my first Tesla last Sunday.
Active tactical pricing adjustments - even on individual level - and different kind of manufacturer sponsored campaigns are done at traditional brands as well, they are just 1) not transparent because importers and dealerships handle them 2) not interesting enough for the public to follow.
In some extent they did, my FSD post purchase price went back to what it was (5400€ from about 2200€).
AND, referral program - gone forever - has made a comeback: Referral Program
Yeah, let’s just not pretend Tesla doesn’t discount. They discount all the time. Also they advertise all the time through the referral prizes. These were some of the old myths Tesla liked to foster but in reality they are no longer the case. It is all a big demand level game all the time.
According to Finnish financial daily Kauppalehti, referring to German Schwacke, Tesla Model S has maintained its value better than Porsche Panamera (3y and 60,000 km). The article does not detail if this was before the price cuts.
Therefore, the second-hand value may not fall as quickly as I thought, although I guess the upcoming model refresh will cause a step change in the value.
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