-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
SR Purchasing Doubts
- Thread starter Metalmanstan
- Start date
pdx_m3s
Active Member
With the right tires it’s very doable. And RWD Teslas have more inherent benefits over ICE ones including weight distribution (RWD Teslas are rear-biased) and very low latency motor control.
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Huh? Well they’re certainly not front drive biased if single motor..
Do you mean to say even the AWD are rear biased? (Which they are)
seattlite2004
Active Member
pdx_m3s
Active Member
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
Oh, yes. This makes total sense. When I took delivery of my P3D+ the first thing I noticed after giving it a proper shakeout was that our MR seemed to handle much more naturally and to an extent felt quicker on its feet despite it being slower.
P3D+ also falls flat on its face below certain SOC while the MR still felt relatively punchy. I’m truly eager to see how the “poor man” car feels in comparison.
Of course. With and without snow tires. I've heard the handling of the model 3 RWD even in the snow is superb. Even without the snow tires.
I just want to thank everyone for their responses. I have a scheduled test drive on the 17th and I will most likely be ordering one that day. The big question is, when do you think Elon will start throwing out those crazy end of the quarter deals? Thanks once again!
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Good luck. I think you’ll really like it. It will be quite a different experience compared to your current wheels.
End of quarter deals are anyone’s guess, so I’ll throw out mine. Expect them in late February, if at all.
To give you another perspective, I live in Northern Ontario, where it gets properly cold and snowy. Normal winter temps hover around -5 degF to -20 degF and will usually get down to about -40 degF a few times before spring. We have an SR+, which we charge on 120V. Commutes are about 30 mi round trip for me and 15 mi round trip for my wife. We often take trips to Southern Ontario, even in winter, of several hundred miles. Our longest stretch between Superchargers is about 100 miles, so even if I loose 50% of my range, I can still hop from Supercharger to Supercharger to get where I'm going.
When we were looking to buy, we were debating between a Prius Prime and the Model 3, so I feel your situation. While I would have loved a LR AWD, it was not in our budget either. Also, we rent at the moment, so installing 240V is not an option. I did a lot of research as well before we pulled the trigger. The Prime would have been the safe option, and buying the Model 3 did give us a bit of winter anxiety at first, but it has turned out quite well for us. It's a pretty remarkable car.
The 50% range loss seems like a worst case scenario in my experience so far. The worst energy loss is when I'm driving though slush and snow, if the roads haven't been properly cleared yet, and/or doing multiple short trips in cold weather (which to me generally means below freezing). My most recent long trip on a clear day, dry roads, in -5 degF weather, cruising at about 70 mph had me using about 350 Wh/mi. I keep our car in Chill Mode in the winter, and I tend to drive fairly lightly on the accelerator. Obviously, your driving style will make a difference. Frankly, I don't always charge up to 100% anymore when I head south, because I'm confident enough in what the car can do now. Also, if the weather is bad enough that I'd loose 50% of my range, I generally just stay home. Or if I have to go out, it's not far and I'm driving a lot slower anyway, which mitigates some of the range loss.
RWD has been fine with good winter tires. I'm not trying to be a tough guy, I've driven lots of cars in the snow and ice, and some are just horrid. AWD would be nice, but for the budget, the RWD Model 3 has been a good car in the snow. With the caveat that winter tires are a must. I'd recommend spending good money here as well, don't cheap out. Hakkapeliittas, XIces, or Blizzaks will make a difference. The traction control and stability control systems are quite good, and the car is pretty well balanced with a lot of weight low and centered between the axles.
We have an unheated garage, and for us 120V charging has been fine. It's slow, but we get our commuting miles back overnight so it's adequate. It takes a few days to get back to a full 90% SOC when we arrive home after a long trip, but our commutes are still covered so it works. If you're parking outside though, 240V is a must. You don't need a 50A service, but at least 3.3 kW to keep up with the battery needing to both heat and charge in the cold. it won't charge as fast outside in the deep cold, even maxed out at 7.7 kW, but it will charge. We have a Supercharger in town, so if we need we can top up now and then. Also, because pre-heating the car on 120V sucks up range, it's handy to hit the Supercharger for a top up charge to warm the battery and interior before heading off on a long trip. That helps keep the Wh/mi down on long trips too. We will also top up a bit at the Supercharger when returning from a trip sometimes as well, just so we have a bit of a buffer going into our work week. So we make it work. When your local Supercharger finally arrives, these are strategies you could use if you feel it necessary.
From the sounds of your situation though, your commute should be a breeze, even in winter. Frankly, even when it's -30 degF or so, and pre-heating the car twice a day, range isn't an issue for either of us commuting. For your hiking trips, it sounds like the SR would have enough range to get you there and back without much trouble, even on cold days. If you have a spot for a L2 top-up near by, then it's a no-brainer. If you are adamant about being able to go hiking in a blizzard, you're braver than I. I can't help you out there. I have a suspicion that the Model 3 would still work for you though.
Best of luck!
When we were looking to buy, we were debating between a Prius Prime and the Model 3, so I feel your situation. While I would have loved a LR AWD, it was not in our budget either. Also, we rent at the moment, so installing 240V is not an option. I did a lot of research as well before we pulled the trigger. The Prime would have been the safe option, and buying the Model 3 did give us a bit of winter anxiety at first, but it has turned out quite well for us. It's a pretty remarkable car.
The 50% range loss seems like a worst case scenario in my experience so far. The worst energy loss is when I'm driving though slush and snow, if the roads haven't been properly cleared yet, and/or doing multiple short trips in cold weather (which to me generally means below freezing). My most recent long trip on a clear day, dry roads, in -5 degF weather, cruising at about 70 mph had me using about 350 Wh/mi. I keep our car in Chill Mode in the winter, and I tend to drive fairly lightly on the accelerator. Obviously, your driving style will make a difference. Frankly, I don't always charge up to 100% anymore when I head south, because I'm confident enough in what the car can do now. Also, if the weather is bad enough that I'd loose 50% of my range, I generally just stay home. Or if I have to go out, it's not far and I'm driving a lot slower anyway, which mitigates some of the range loss.
RWD has been fine with good winter tires. I'm not trying to be a tough guy, I've driven lots of cars in the snow and ice, and some are just horrid. AWD would be nice, but for the budget, the RWD Model 3 has been a good car in the snow. With the caveat that winter tires are a must. I'd recommend spending good money here as well, don't cheap out. Hakkapeliittas, XIces, or Blizzaks will make a difference. The traction control and stability control systems are quite good, and the car is pretty well balanced with a lot of weight low and centered between the axles.
We have an unheated garage, and for us 120V charging has been fine. It's slow, but we get our commuting miles back overnight so it's adequate. It takes a few days to get back to a full 90% SOC when we arrive home after a long trip, but our commutes are still covered so it works. If you're parking outside though, 240V is a must. You don't need a 50A service, but at least 3.3 kW to keep up with the battery needing to both heat and charge in the cold. it won't charge as fast outside in the deep cold, even maxed out at 7.7 kW, but it will charge. We have a Supercharger in town, so if we need we can top up now and then. Also, because pre-heating the car on 120V sucks up range, it's handy to hit the Supercharger for a top up charge to warm the battery and interior before heading off on a long trip. That helps keep the Wh/mi down on long trips too. We will also top up a bit at the Supercharger when returning from a trip sometimes as well, just so we have a bit of a buffer going into our work week. So we make it work. When your local Supercharger finally arrives, these are strategies you could use if you feel it necessary.
From the sounds of your situation though, your commute should be a breeze, even in winter. Frankly, even when it's -30 degF or so, and pre-heating the car twice a day, range isn't an issue for either of us commuting. For your hiking trips, it sounds like the SR would have enough range to get you there and back without much trouble, even on cold days. If you have a spot for a L2 top-up near by, then it's a no-brainer. If you are adamant about being able to go hiking in a blizzard, you're braver than I. I can't help you out there. I have a suspicion that the Model 3 would still work for you though.
Best of luck!
Sorry it is just physics, RWD cars handle far differently than FWD cars in the snow. Tesla, BMW or whatever, they are going to drive different. Tesla is not superior than other RWD car, don't listen to the fanboys talk.
pdx_m3s
Active Member
Yes, a RWD Tesla will out-handle a RWD BMW any day of the week. I’ve owned both. There a few reasons why: weight distribution, software, low latency wheel speed control.
TomB985
Member
Did any of us ever say it was superior to all other RWD cars? I certainly didn't.
The OP said he got the impression that it handled "superb". I think the majority of us who have driven a lot of rearwheel drive cars would agree with that. That doesn't mean other cars don't also handle well.
Even my V8 Challenger is fine in the snow because of stability control, but it is significantly worse weight distribution than my Model 3. A front engine rear wheel drive car has a higher center of gravity closer to the front axle and away from the driven wheels.
This gives me even more confidence!! You live in the complete middle of nowhere and the weather is probably worse than mine!! Thank you for taking your time to write this up!! By the way, you live several hours closer than me to Rouyn-Noranda. I am a big fan of the QMJHL and the huskies! Thanks once again!
Stash
There's a big difference between RWD handling the conditions superbly, adequately, or better than other RWD vehicles. If you lower the bar you will definitely be happy. There is no way that RWD paired with the best winter tires on the planet comes close to what the AWD version can do. I can't count how many times I've heard that "Oh I've been driving with RWD in bad winters my entire life. I'm a superb driver." Yes that can be true. If you take the superb driver and pair him with AWD? That's a dream team lol.
Of course you can get by with RWD. I know that I can't get up my driveway without AWD. I know that I feel safer(and that I am safer). I know that I like a full charge being 310, but that's an added bonus.
Think about how much time and extra stops you have to make if you have a SR+
Time is a precious commodity. You have to think about your safety in winter and stop to charge a lot more if you have an SR+
Of course you can get by with RWD. I know that I can't get up my driveway without AWD. I know that I feel safer(and that I am safer). I know that I like a full charge being 310, but that's an added bonus.
Think about how much time and extra stops you have to make if you have a SR+
Time is a precious commodity. You have to think about your safety in winter and stop to charge a lot more if you have an SR+
TomB985
Member
I just don't agree.
I've lived up north my whole life, and have about a dozen had 4WD/AWD vehicles, and another 8 or 10 without. The absolute biggest difference in snow performance I've noticed had to do with tires, not drive system. I would take my RWD Tesla on snow tires against any 4WD I've ever owned on all seasons. It's not Tesla exclusive, either… I had a Prius last winter on Blizzaks that would go through almost anything. Tires > drive system. Of course an all-wheel-drive on snow tires would outperform 2WD, but tires a big difference.
If you had RWD there's no way you're getting up my driveway. Zero chance. RWD is especially horrible with inclines and declines.
Similar threads
