Stronger Regen at 99% with software limited SR+

[OrthoSurg]

Interesting.
I have a SR but they delivered a SR+ in April. Regen never ever worked at 98%+.

Last update they software limited my SR range from 386km to 334km.

Now look at the power of regen at 99% with cold battery. Charged from 95% to 100% to pre-warm it and had to drive 1km to exit the pedestrian street where I could take that picture safely without any pedestrians or cars nearby.

 

[ucmndd]

Interesting.

Expected.

Your “99%” charged SR is a physical SR+ battery charged to about 90%, where there’s plenty of capacity for regen.

 

[derotam]

That picture shows regen being limited, see all those regen limitation dots? There are 18 dots in the image. That is almost complete regen loss. I have seen as many as 22 dots in my vehicle. That regen limitation is directly related to SOC level and/or battery temperature.

The fact that it is -6C outside has nothing to do with it directly.

 

[ucmndd]

That is almost complete regen loss.

A battery actually charged to 100% doesn’t have “almost complete regen loss”, it has “complete regen loss”.

The fact that OP has a software limited SR definitely makes a difference here, which is the point they were trying to illustrate.

 

[derotam]

A battery actually charged to 100% doesn’t have “almost complete regen loss”, it has “complete regen loss”.

The fact that OP has a software limited SR definitely makes a difference here, which is the point they were trying to illustrate.

I am perfectly happy to accept that data with a video showing the car decelerating and showing the regen/power bar.

there’s plenty of capacity for regen

This picture is not showing this with all those dots.

 

[ucmndd]

I am perfectly happy to accept that data with a video showing the car decelerating and showing the regen/power bar.

This picture is not showing this with all those dots.

It's indisputable that a battery charged to ~90% has plenty of available capacity for regeneration. The limits in this case are obviously due to the cold conditions and battery, which OP also stated.

Again, their point was to illustrate a behavior difference between a software locked SR and a SR+, which this obviously does. A battery truly charged to 100% does not regen, at all.

 

[derotam]

Lots of time and effort have been wasted with this individual on the official Tesla forum due to their lack of providing additional information. This is the same person that stated that this amount of regen was "full regen". It is clearly not "full regen".

In order to show "full" regen, this person would have to provide additional data which they have been unwilling or unable to provide on the other forum.

My goal is to be able to have full data on some of the ideas that get thrown around. In this instance, having a warm battery and then showing the amount of regen would be more useful to me and others.

I can't ask people to go out and buy the required items to get the CANbus data, but I think it is reasonable to ask for a couple of variables to be removed to provide a clearer picture of what is going on.

 

[OrthoSurg]

I have been working 16 hours straight today I’m on call. What extra additional information do you need to make it work in your brain? Sorry I don’t spend all my life on Tesla forums to answer your incessant questions, then take pictures for you than you’re asking for videos, then installing applications. Then you talk about someone wasting your time when you are the one wasting other people time by being stubborn to not understand the obvious. Ready ucmnd posts, it’s concise, simple, clean and well explained.

 

[boriszima]

If one sets to charge car to certain percent, let’s say 80% then if an owner starts driving down hill right away that means no more regen will go into battery as limit is set? Just curious as it relates to SR/SR+ where Tesla sets software limit at 220, but will regen our extra in?

 

[Feathermerchan]

If one sets to charge car to certain percent, let’s say 80% then if an owner starts driving down hill right away that means no more regen will go into battery as limit is set? Just curious as it relates to SR/SR+ where Tesla sets software limit at 220, but will regen our extra in?

No it will regen until the battery is 100% full.

 

[derotam]

I have been working 16 hours straight today I’m on call. What extra additional information do you need to make it work in your brain? Sorry I don’t spend all my life on Tesla forums to answer your incessant questions, then take pictures for you than you’re asking for videos, then installing applications. Then you talk about someone wasting your time when you are the one wasting other people time by being stubborn to not understand the obvious. Ready ucmnd posts, it’s concise, simple, clean and well explained.

Look, my dispute here with you on this subject is your use of the term "full regen". I absolutely agree that if a battery is at 90% SOC then you should have full regen available, I don't dispute that. I am just saying that you are not actually showing FULL regen because of the cold battery. I just want to get the FULL understanding here.

It is my understanding that there should be at least some loss of regen capacity at say a 95% SOC right? If you don't agree with that, lets say 98% but it doesn't really matter... Your picture as it stands does not say that all 10% of extra software locked battery capacity is locked at the top. Maybe it is 5% top, 5% bottom. This is my point.

So really my complaint is more with ucmdd's statement that is not proven by your picture.

Your “99%” charged SR is a physical SR+ battery charged to about 90%,

 

[ucmndd]

Your picture as it stands does not say that all 10% of extra software locked battery capacity is locked at the top. Maybe it is 5% top, 5% bottom. This is my point.

So really my complaint is more with ucmdd's statement that is not proven by your picture.

You can complain about it all you want, it's definitively true, and has been for every single software locked Tesla battery since the inception of the company. It's a very simple setting in the BMS that limits the state of charge to some artificially low capacity (i.e. top lock). The Model 3 is no different. There's no reasonable expectation that it would be. It's confirmed by direct observation of the unlock process on Model S/X vehicles, the observed regen behavior, and perhaps most definitively the observed supercharging taper of Model 3 SR that precisely matches the SR+, just shifted up by the expected ~10% SoC differential.

This should not still be a point of contention and needless speculation.

 

[derotam]

You can complain about it all you want, it's definitively true, and has been for every single software locked Tesla battery since the inception of the company. It's a very simple setting in the BMS that limits the state of charge to some artificially low capacity (i.e. top lock). The Model 3 is no different. There's no reasonable expectation that it would be. It's confirmed by direct observation of the unlock process on Model S/X vehicles, the observed regen behavior, and perhaps most definitively the observed supercharging taper of Model 3 SR that precisely matches the SR+, just shifted up by the expected ~10% SoC differential.

This should not still be a point of contention and needless speculation.

I'm not saying it is false, I'm saying that the image does not prove anything other than that there is some quantity of regen available at effectively a 100% charged software limited SR+.

You can theorize where the extra 10% is locked but that is just a theory, and the picture(and statement about 98%) does nothing except to say that there is somewhere between 3-10% of the extra capacity locked at the top.

People have shown that Tesla is putting a buffer at the bottom of the pack. Who's to say they didn't apportion a part of that 10% to add to the bottom buffer?

This person in the other forum stated that that picture represents "full regen". This is FALSE.

Let me correct your mis-quote from me at this point then...

A battery actually charged to 100% doesn’t have “almost complete regen loss”, it has “complete regen loss”.

I never said A battery charged to 100% has 'almost complete regen loss'.... I said the picture shows almost complete regen loss, which SUPPORTS the contention that SOME AMOUNT of the software limited capacity has been TOP locked.

 

[OrthoSurg]

I'm not saying it is false, I'm saying that the image does not prove anything other than that there is some quantity of regen available at effectively a 100% charged software limited SR+.

You can theorize where the extra 10% is locked but that is just a theory, and the picture(and statement about 98%) does nothing except to say that there is somewhere between 3-10% of the extra capacity locked at the top.

People have shown that Tesla is putting a buffer at the bottom of the pack. Who's to say they didn't apportion a part of that 10% to add to the bottom buffer?

This person in the other forum stated that that picture represents "full regen". This is FALSE.

Let me correct your mis-quote from me at this point then...


I never said A battery charged to 100% has 'almost complete regen loss'.... I said the picture shows almost complete regen loss, which SUPPORTS the contention that SOME AMOUNT of the software limited capacity has been TOP locked.

It is the full regen capacity with that battery temperature.
I can reproduce that experiment during summer when it will be 25 degrees outside but it will have to wait till after the 1st of March because I have to change winter tires to Summer tires as winter tires do not get any regen from 5 degrees and aboveboard since the Tesla regen sensors do not work with Pirelli winter tires.
While waiting we’ll have to agree to disagree.

 

[ucmndd]

You can theorize where the extra 10% is locked but that is just a theory

No, it isn’t. This is what you’re not understanding, or refusing to acknowledge, and in the process you’re perpetuating needless confusion and misinformation.

 

[derotam]

No, it isn’t. This is what you’re not understanding, or refusing to acknowledge, and in the process you’re perpetuating needless confusion and misinformation.

I am happy to be wrong...Can you provide me your source for the full 10% being locked all at the top.

 

[derotam]

It is the full regen capacity with that battery temperature.
I can reproduce that experiment during summer when it will be 25 degrees outside but it will have to wait till after the 1st of March because I have to change winter tires to Summer tires as winter tires do not get any regen from 5 degrees and aboveboard since the Tesla regen sensors do not work with Pirelli winter tires.
While waiting we’ll have to agree to disagree.

Thank you for clarifying your statement. You can reproduce it now, you just have to warm up the battery. Lots of way's to do that.

I love data, and that is all I am after, full and complete data with removing as many variables as possible to get to as good of an understanding as to the operation of the vehicle as possible.

Edit: sorry, I missed the statement about the regen sensors not working with those tires. and I only disagreed with your "full regen" statement.