Suspension Clearances for Wider / Taller tires

[Quorky]

If a move from 20s to 21s is a hit of 20miles in range or so, should I assume the 1.3" taller tire and slightly fuller will hit the range another 20miles?

Seems a bit steep if I can just get 20s and have 40miles more range than what we are discussing here.

 

[Zoomit]

If a move from 20s to 21s is a hit of 20miles in range or so, should I assume the 1.3" taller tire and slightly fuller will hit the range another 20miles?

Seems a bit steep if I can just get 20s and have 40miles more range than what we are discussing here.

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The range has more to do with the tire than the wheel diameter.

Case in point, on my Model 3, I just moved from the OE Continental ProContact RX tires on 19" Sport wheels to Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on 18" Aero wheels and lost 8-10% range. I was hoping the lower drag on the 18" Aero wheels would compensate for the higher rolling resistance tires and the swap would be about neutral on range, but that is clearly not the case.

 

[52 16 57 39]

Uberturbines:

Front stock 255/35/21 to proposed 265/40/21
Rear stock 275/35/21 to proposed 285/40/21

Wow, tight tolerances! (Edited) When my Pirellis are gone, I’ll move into a 265 front and 285 rear tire to gain some protection from curbs.

The pictures help immensely. I’m thinking you held some awkward automotive yoga poses to capture those shots...!

 

[Quorky]

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The range has more to do with the tire than the wheel diameter.

Case in point, on my Model 3, I just moved from the OE Continental ProContact RX tires on 19" Sport wheels to Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on 18" Aero wheels and lost 8-10% range. I was hoping the lower drag on the 18" Aero wheels would compensate for the higher rolling resistance tires and the swap would be about neutral on range, but that is clearly not the case.

Ugh, thank you, that's literally the tire under consideration here. Cant find anything else that fits the size criteria.

 

[Quorky]

Well originally the pilot sport in 35 tall, but after more peoples view on them I wanted to look into 40’s if they fit which I believe will with some low tread height pattern. They have to be all seasons and something quiet. Need to check if any quiettraks are in the size.

Cant really find anything else out there in these sizes on tire rack in all seasons. Let me know if you see anything different otherwise may have to get the boomie tires.

 

[Quorky]

Alright, bit the bullet. Ordered:

Michelin A/S Pilot Sport 4

Front: 265/40/21
Rear: 285/40/21

Will report back with results and pics...

 

[akballow]

Alright, bit the bullet. Ordered:

Michelin A/S Pilot Sport 4

Front: 265/40/21
Rear: 285/40/21

Will report back with results and pics...

If you do a detailed post about them I am sure there will be many Model y owners tanking you. We all want more sidewall

 

[akballow]

Just a tip to try to record mile range and 0-60 and quarter-mile before and after. because you know those will be the questions to know what is lost with the bigger wheels with the added protection and ride comfort if they fit xD

also speedo change.

 

[akballow]

Unfortunately, it's not that simple. The range has more to do with the tire than the wheel diameter.

Case in point, on my Model 3, I just moved from the OE Continental ProContact RX tires on 19" Sport wheels to Pilot Sport All Season 4 tires on 18" Aero wheels and lost 8-10% range. I was hoping the lower drag on the 18" Aero wheels would compensate for the higher rolling resistance tires and the swap would be about neutral on range, but that is clearly not the case.

You went from low rolling resistance to slightly higher one so that explains that. 21' summer tires are super roll resistant so there should be either a positive gain of efficiency (minuscule) or equals out due to added height/weight if it was changed to just 35 profile. With 40 profile it will for sure take a small hit, but again for the added curb protection and ride comfort.

 

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Agreed @akballow.

0-60 times & perhaps routine round trip mileage that can be repeated - maybe a 20-30minute out and back using the trip odometer as our cars can record the watt hour/mile.

I understand the 0-60 can be influence by the weather/conditions. The 20-30 minute routine trip should be driven in a similar fashion - but drive the way you drive it... don’t pedal the car too much just to save energy. Drive the car as you normally do, w the current tires and after the new set!

Congrats on making progress!

 

[Zoomit]

our cars can record the watt hour/mile

Remember that any metric that depends on distance will be off as well as the odometer and speedometer. Just quoting the Wh/mi will be misleading.

 

[Quorky]

Just a tip to try to record mile range and 0-60 and quarter-mile before and after. because you know those will be the questions to know what is lost with the bigger wheels with the added protection and ride comfort if they fit xD

also speedo change.

For some of these I would need a Dragy or whatever that device is called. If anybody wants to ship one to me, I will be more than happy to take detailed readings and then ship the device back.

As far as speedo we already have that info via tire comparison site. It looks to be a 4.9% error. So the math is easy on that one. Divide whatever speed you going to by 10, then by 2 then add it back to the speed... so @ 60mph reading on the dash you are going ~63mph in actuality (60 / 10 = 6 / 2 = 3, 60 + 3 = 63mph).

I will def give the feel thoughts but that is just super subjective. I like a rougher ride and soft riding does not do it for me for some reason. Like to feel the road, so the comparison will be subjective vs the stock ubers, rather than anything else.

 

[Quorky]

Remember that any metric that depends on distance will be off as well as the odometer and speedometer. Just quoting the Wh/mi will be misleading.

Can that be adjusted by the error coefficient? Ie the wh/mile is actually wh/(mile + 4.9%) - through that logic the stated wh/mile after the swap should be underestimating the efficiency by overstating the consumption relative to a mile of the vehicle... is that relation ship linear?

 

[Quorky]

Agreed @akballow.

0-60 times & perhaps routine round trip mileage that can be repeated - maybe a 20-30minute out and back using the trip odometer as our cars can record the watt hour/mile.

I understand the 0-60 can be influence by the weather/conditions. The 20-30 minute routine trip should be driven in a similar fashion - but drive the way you drive it... don’t pedal the car too much just to save energy. Drive the car as you normally do, w the current tires and after the new set!

Congrats on making progress!

Will do. I will need weather to cooperate to get a better understanding of what I am dealing with but will try to replicate the conditions as close as possible, for the test. I am starting to understand and appreciate the amount of effort that ppl put into the testing uncharted waters...

 

[Zoomit]

Can that be adjusted by the error coefficient? Ie the wh/mile is actually wh/(mile + 4.9%) - through that logic the stated wh/mile after the swap should be underestimating the efficiency by overstating the consumption relative to a mile of the vehicle... is that relation ship linear?

Yes, it's just a matter of adjusting for the odometer error (4.9% in this case). Just multiply the displayed Wh/mi value by 0.953 [=1/1.049] to get the actual Wh/mi.

 

[52 16 57 39]

Remember that any metric that depends on distance will be off as well as the odometer and speedometer. Just quoting the Wh/mi will be misleading.

I don’t understand.

I understand the Speedometer will be off as the outside diameter will be changing, but I don’t understand how the watt/hour per mile will not be accurate.

If the same trip (mileage) is driven but reports a different energy use - the trip mileage stays constant (despite the odometer as the wheel circumference has changed).

 

[Quorky]

I don’t understand.

I understand the Speedometer will be off as the outside diameter will be changing, but I don’t understand how the watt/hour per mile will not be accurate.

If the same trip (mileage) is driven but reports a different energy use - the trip mileage stays constant (despite the odometer as the wheel circumference has changed).

If you drive an exact same trip to the mile then the consumption can be compared directly. If you are looking at WH/Mile, then in reality you are looking at WH/(Mile*1.049) after the tire swap, so you will have traveled more for the what's stated by using that metric alone and not the total consumption for the trip measure (I am not sure, can that even be measured onboard? - the total consumption for miles driven, not average wh/mile)....

 

[Daks]

I'd also verify that the car isn't correcting itself somehow too... When I first asked Tesla about changing tire sizes and if they could reprogram the computer they said it wasn't needed... But I didn't get a sense that person was correct... Even though he did leave the phone call for a second to ask someone.

 

[Quorky]

I'd also verify that the car isn't correcting itself somehow too... When I first asked Tesla about changing tire sizes and if they could reprogram the computer they said it wasn't needed... But I didn't get a sense that person was correct... Even though he did leave the phone call for a second to ask someone.

That's an interesting point. The car does ask you if you changed wheels when you swap wheels and drive. So it must see that something is off, however, you are only given the few official options. It's should be able to measure and verify speed independent of the circumference of the wheels. Prob an eventual update or give us the option to adjust the circumference by inputting the wheel and tire specs. I will try to remember to verify it via phone.

 

[Quorky]

So... anybody wanna lend me a dragy to test some of these measurements? Preferably somebody that is local in NYC