Tesla at the 2011 Detroit Auto Show

[suxxer]

 

[Ipe]

The windows on my Mustang are frameless and there's virtually no wind noise, and I've never seen a water leak. I think it's possible to do it right.

Note that Ford achieved this by making it so whenever you open the door, if the window is up, it drops a little bit to allow the door to open. Then when you close the door, the window goes back up a little bit. This allows for the window to go into the roof kind of. Obviously you can't do this with a detachable roof, but with a permanent roof like the Model S (or the Mustang), you definitely can.

I'm sure all of those "noise, vibration, & harshness" guys that Tesla has would have thought of this long ago.

Edit: In case you're wondering, I live in Boston and I've never had my window get frozen shut, so that's not an issue.

My Volvo C70 (hardtop convertible) has frameless windows that drop a bit when opening the door. Never any problems.

 

[AnOutsider]

For about 2-3 months of the year my windows are frozen shut or rather there is so much ice I don't dare using the power windows for fear of the ice killing the mechanism. On my old Civic the mechanism is also crap, as I've already got 2 windows that don't open since the mechanism rusts shut. I've changed one of them already... So I'd rather have the frames yes, or at least make sure they've got a door-opening system that does not require the window to open. Just yesterday I couldn't open the passenger door until the car got warm.

Cobos

That's really strange, never had those problems. I suppose though, if the car is left out doors and ice forms on various bits, it's possible

 

[Cobos]

It's pretty normal here for cars parked outdoors. As the car heats up as you drive it you melt the snow and ice on the window sill and around the door. Supposedly there are some rubber protection to stop any water from leaking between the door and the door frame as well as into the windows. I've got an OK maintained 1996 Civic so a small amount of water will sometimes get between the door and doorframe. Then when you leave the car over night eventually all the water will freeze solid and bind the two together. As long as you get inside and can push the door from the inside it's no problem, but yanking on the handle might get you too much handle and too little door in your hand as the plastic gets fragile in the cold.
I'd say for any car older than 5 years kept outside unless you are religious in applying extra layers of silicone this happens. I of course live in Oslo which isn't as cold as the inland climate, where you almost need to use an engine blockheater.

Cobos

 

[AnOutsider]

It's pretty normal here for cars parked outdoors. As the car heats up as you drive it you melt the snow and ice on the window sill and around the door. Supposedly there are some rubber protection to stop any water from leaking between the door and the door frame as well as into the windows. I've got an OK maintained 1996 Civic so a small amount of water will sometimes get between the door and doorframe. Then when you leave the car over night eventually all the water will freeze solid and bind the two together. As long as you get inside and can push the door from the inside it's no problem, but yanking on the handle might get you too much handle and too little door in your hand as the plastic gets fragile in the cold.
I'd say for any car older than 5 years kept outside unless you are religious in applying extra layers of silicone this happens. I of course live in Oslo which isn't as cold as the inland climate, where you almost need to use an engine blockheater.

Cobos

I can see that. I'd also imagine that freezing just once can make things worse as the expanding ice will make the cracks the water can seep into even bigger than they were before.

 

[TEG]

 

[TEG]

 

[TEG]

 

[AnOutsider]

I really hope we see the Alpha at the show. Sure, it's great they're focusing on their underpinnings, but in reality, all most want to see is progress.

 

[Adm]

Just got a reply to a comment I made on Facebook: Model S will be in Geneva. No answer on my question yet if it's gonna be the same "Detroit" Alpha.

 

[TEG]

Fisker Karma cutaway for comparison:
http://www.fiskercarforum.com/2010/02/17/pr-fisker-karma-advanced-aluminum-space-frame/
"PR: Fisker Karma Advanced Aluminum Space Frame"

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/14040/fisker-karma-front-end-revealed

 

[Cobos]

Could someone that knows this a lot better than me point out the major differences between the space frame of the Karma and the Model S? For my untrained eye it looks like there is more aluminum in the Karma which should impact weight, but that's about all I can see.

Cobos

 

[Eberhard]

But you should remember, that once Fisker worked for Tesla before he left to found his own company. thats why the structure of both vehicle have a lot in common.

 

[dpeilow]

Just got a reply to a comment I made on Facebook: Model S will be in Geneva. No answer on my question yet if it's gonna be the same "Detroit" Alpha.

That's good to hear.

I thought it was pretty sporting of Tesla to go to Detroit and show the industry there exactly how to build a pure EV. Lives up to their mantra of not being happy until everything on the road is electric.

 

[Hache]

Fisker Karma cutaway for comparison:
http://www.fiskercarforum.com/2010/02/17/pr-fisker-karma-advanced-aluminum-space-frame/
"PR: Fisker Karma Advanced Aluminum Space Frame"

lol @the comments ^^
Could the Karma need some xanax ? ;-)


Xanax : It is primarily used to treat moderate to severe anxiety disorders (e.g., social anxiety disorder) and panic attacks. (says wikipedia)

 

[AnOutsider]

That's good to hear.

I thought it was pretty sporting of Tesla to go to Detroit and show the industry there exactly how to build a pure EV. Lives up to their mantra of not being happy until everything on the road is electric.

I dunno, Tesla came sure, we saw.... But I don't really think they conquered

 

[Eberhard]

Its quite more complicated to build a hybrid. And a hybrid even as PHEV is not really unique. Teslas pure electric Model S with the proofed battery pack, simpler layout (no ICE) and the expected lower maintenance cost (compared to Karma) is very much appealing then any other.

 

[TEG]

http://www.fastcompany.com/1716066/tesla-the-model-s-is-a-platform-for-future-vehicles

 

[Tommy]

http://www.fastcompany.com/1716066/tesla-the-model-s-is-a-platform-for-future-vehicles

The last line of the article:

But for now, Rawlinson wants to focus on the Model S, and for good reason. There's plenty of work to be done. When we asked if there were any major changes he would like to make between the alpha prototype and the production vehicle, Rawlinson responded: "Do you have an hour?"

I hope Rawlinson gets his way, he seems to be very detailed orientated for the betterment of the design.