Tesla autopilot HW3

[electronblue]

Looks like Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority.

That seems fair, as they have been waiting longer than model 3 owners.

Sigh... No, no and once again no.

The desire to think the best of Tesla and rationalize their decisions in the best possible light once again leads to misinformation.

There is no proof to suggest Tesla is prioritizing older owners. In fact, there is proof of the absolute contrary: Tesla is prioritizing the latest technology for retrofits.

Tesla is so far retrofitting HW2.5 MCU2 Model S/X cars, which is the latest such hardware iteration to be released by Tesla (excluding the current production HW3 MCU2 of course).

This means all the older owners and configurations are bypassed:
- Model S/X AP2 shipped in 2016-2017
- Model S/X AP2.5 MCU1 shipped in 2017-2018
- Model 3 shipped starting in 2017-

Only configuration being retrofitted is the Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 starting shipping around March 2018. All older configurations are not yet receiving retrofits.

So what is the real reason Tesla starts with AP2.5 MCU2? It is the easiest, since it is the closest to current factory production and able to use current factory firmware.

Why Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 and not Model 3 AP2.5 MCU2? Again because it is easiest. The sandwiched water cooled Model 3 design means swapping the combined MCU2/APE unit is more work. The air-cooled separate APE in Model S/X is much faster and likely cheaper to swap.

 

[Boson12]

But but but full self driving this year!

 

[chillaban]

That seems fair, as they have been waiting longer than model 3 owners.

I think it's more that the S/X is just a computer swap while the 3 requires you to disconnect liquid cooling and separate the MCU from AP computer.


Remember it's only new (MCU2+AP2.5) S/x configs that are eligible.

 

[run-the-joules]

PSA: My Model 3 is getting the HW3 computer installed right now, apparently. : teslamotors

Relevant, it would seem.

 

[jebinc]

I think it's more that the S/X is just a computer swap while the 3 requires you to disconnect liquid cooling and separate the MCU from AP computer.


Remember it's only new (MCU2+AP2.5) S/x configs that are eligible.

Check. My only point was prioritizing those who have been waiting the longest, seems fair (irrespective of model). I already have HW3, so I haven't been tracking all of the configurations. And those that know my post history, know I'm no fan-boy. More a realist/pragmatist...

 

[chillaban]

Check. My only point was prioritizing those who have been waiting the longest, seems fair (irrespective of model). I already have HW3, so I haven't been tracking all of the configurations. And those that know my post history, know I'm no fan-boy. More a realist/pragmatist...

I totally agree, that would hypothetically be fair and I'm an AP2.0 owner so I would like that.

Unfortunately something like that should start from engineering.

 

[diplomat33]

Sigh... No, no and once again no.

The desire to think the best of Tesla and rationalize their decisions in the best possible light once again leads to misinformation.

There is no proof to suggest Tesla is prioritizing older owners. In fact, there is proof of the absolute contrary: Tesla is prioritizing the latest technology for retrofits.

Tesla is so far retrofitting HW2.5 MCU2 Model S/X cars, which is the latest such hardware iteration to be released by Tesla (excluding the current production HW3 MCU2 of course).

This means all the older owners and configurations are bypassed:
- Model S/X AP2 shipped in 2016-2017
- Model S/X AP2.5 MCU1 shipped in 2017-2018
- Model 3 shipped starting in 2017-

Only configuration being retrofitted is the Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 starting shipping around March 2018. All older configurations are not yet receiving retrofits.

So what is the real reason Tesla starts with AP2.5 MCU2? It is the easiest, since it is the closest to current factory production and able to use current factory firmware.

Why Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2 and not Model 3 AP2.5 MCU2? Again because it is easiest. The sandwiched water cooled Model 3 design means swapping the combined MCU2/APE unit is more work. The air-cooled separate APE in Model S/X is much faster and likely cheaper to swap.

Look I know you want to be skeptical of Tesla but just read what the message says! Don't inject your own biases into what the message says!

The message clearly states that they will start with Model S/X by VIN number! if they go in ascending VIN order, then older AP2 Model S owners will go first. If they go in descending VIN order first, older AP2 Model S owners will still get priority over Model 3 owners since they are doing Model S before Model 3.

 

[RedOctober]

I am in no rush to get HW3. Maybe if I wait I will get HW4 which according to Elon is twice faster than HW3

Actually thats why I’m not bothering with the upgrade because once they have fulfilled their commitment to the HW3 upgrade and the new HW/chip comes out there won’t be another upgrade.

 

[electronblue]

Look I know you want to be skeptical of Tesla but just read what the message says! Don't inject your own biases into what the message says!

The message clearly states that they will start with Model S/X by VIN number! if they go in ascending VIN order, then older AP2 Model S owners will go first. If they go in descending VIN order first, older AP2 Model S owners will still get priority over Model 3 owners since they are doing Model S before Model 3.

Once again. No.

It does not mean what you think it means or what you rationalize it means. I know it sounds good — and surely Tesla likes to say things that sound good — but it does not mean what you think it means.

Tesla has started the retrofits from the latest Model S/X cars (newer than many Model 3s): AP2.5 MCU2 built around March 2018 onwards. This is a known fact. Please pay attention to the facts.

And here is another known fact: The eligibility for retrofit indeed is derived from VIN. But that does not mean it follows an order of VINs beginning from the oldest. It just means the VIN database tells the SC whether or not this car should be retrofitted now or not.

Tesla started HW3 retrofits from the latest cars and bypassed old buyers of FSD. Absolutely opposite of what you claimed.

 

[electronblue]

@diplomat33 By the way, there is no bias in my posts in this thread. I am stating you facts of Tesla’s manufacturing and retrofitting history. You offered wishful thinking which is not based on these facts, but contrary to them.

 

[diplomat33]

Once again. No.

It does not mean what you think it means or what you rationalize it means. I know it sounds good — and surely Tesla likes to say things that sound good — but it does not mean what you think it means.

Tesla has started the retrofits from the latest Model S/X cars (newer than many Model 3s): AP2.5 MCU2 built around March 2018 onwards. This is a known fact. Please pay attention to the facts.

And here is another known fact: The eligibility for retrofit indeed is derived from VIN. But that does not mean it follows an order of VINs beginning from the oldest. It just means the VIN database tells the SC whether or not this car should be retrofitted now or not.

Tesla started HW3 retrofits from the latest cars and bypassed old buyers of FSD. Absolutely opposite of what you claimed.

Tesla has done some isolated upgrades of cars yes, but the mass upgrade has not started yet. The message is about how the mass upgrade will occur.

The mass upgrade will go like this:
1) Model S/X (AP2 and AP2.5) on the West Coast.
2) Then, Model 3 on the West Coast.
3) Then moving Eastward, starting with Model S/X first.

That is what the message says!

 

[diplomat33]

@diplomat33 By the way, there is no bias in my posts in this thread. I am stating you facts of Tesla’s manufacturing and retrofitting history. You offered wishful thinking which is not based on these facts, but contrary to them.

You are offering history while ignoring what Tesla has said about how they will do the mass upgrades.

 

[electronblue]

You are offering history while ignoring what Tesla has said about how they will do the mass upgrades.

I disagree with your interpretation based on history of what and how Tesla states things. It does not mean what you think it means.

There is no promise of VIN order there. That part is your wishful thinking not based on anything.

It does not mean they’ll start with old cars first.

In fact, I believe the message refers to events that have already started — and we know how they have started.

 

[diplomat33]

I disagree with your interpretation based on history of what and how Tesla states things. It does not mean what you think it means.

There is no promise of VIN order there. That part is your wishful thinking not based on anything.

It does not mean they’ll start with old cars first.

In fact, I believe the message refers to events that have already started.

It says Model S/X BEFORE Model 3 So no, it does not say that they will start with older cars. Maybe newer Model S will get upgrade before older Model S. But it does say Model S before Model 3 so older Model S will get the upgrade before Model 3.

 

[electronblue]

@diplomat33

Trust me. You will see I am right on this. It does not mean what you think it means.

It is a broad collection of factoids grouped into a nice sounding but meaningless message:

1. Yes, first SCs to get it are near the factory as always.

2. Yes, they start with Model S/X because it is the easiest for them to install (AP2.5 cars). Model 3s will follow because it needs a bit different procedure (will they need to recycle the media computers as they are sandwiched etc).

3. Yes, they release the upgrade by VIN which means two things: it tells the SC when they are allowed tor retrofit and it also means retrofit kits will go out by VIN range denoting different configurations that may be relevant for the retrofit.

Unfortunately it does not mean any kind of priority for old owners. It does not mean they start from AP2 FSD VIN ”1” (whatever is the VIN of first AP2 on West Coast) and go from there in order. It simply does not. Everything we know of Tesla guarantees this.

 

[diplomat33]

@diplomat33

Trust me. You will see I am right on this. It does not mean what you think it means.

It is a broad collection of factoids grouped into a nice sounding but meaningless message:

1. Yes, first SCs to get it are near the factory as always.

2. Yes, they start with Model S/X because it is the easiest for them to install (AP2.5 cars). Model 3s will follow because it needs a bit different procedure (will they need to recycle the media computers as they are sandwiched etc).

3. Yes, they release the upgrade by VIN which means two things: it tells the SC when they are allowed tor retrofit and it also means retrofit kits will go out by VIN range denoting different configurations that may be relevant for the retrofit.

Unfortunately it does not mean any kind of priority for old owners. It does not mean they start from AP2 FSD VIN ”1” (whatever is the VIN of first AP2 on West Coast) and go from there in order. It simply does not. Everything we know of Tesla guarantees this.

I am not saying that they will start with AP2 VIN 1,2,3. I am just saying that older Model S owners will get it before Model 3.

Maybe we are talking past each other. The message clearly says that Tesla will look at VIN in order to start with Model S cars on the west coast first. No, that does not mean that they will start with AP2 VIN 1. I get that. But it does mean that they will do Model S cars before Model 3 cars. The message clearly states that Model S will before Model 3. So they will do AP2 Model S before AP2.5 Model 3.

 

[electronblue]

I am not saying that they will start with AP2 VIN 1,2,3. I am just saying that older Model S owners will get it before Model 3.

No, there is no talking past us.

I believe you are absolutely and utterly mistaken. Wrong.

It is evident to me HW3 retrofits will go first to the LATEST pre-HW3 hardware configuration: Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2.

This means new Model S/X owners will get HW3 before older Model 3 owners. It seems also likely to me (for different reasons) that many Model 3 owners will get HW3 before old Model S/X owners.

In any case, in no way can this be construed as any kind of priority by age of purchase or car. This is simply usual Tesla batching by convenience.

Looks like Tesla will try to give older Model S/X owners priority.

No. There is none of this and it does not look that way.

 

[diplomat33]

It is evident to me HW3 retrofits will go first to the LATEST pre-HW3 hardware configuration: Model S/X AP2.5 MCU2.

This means new Model S/X owners will get HW3 before older Model 3 owners. It seems also likely to me that many Model 3 owners will get HW3 before old Model S/X owners.

The message from Tesla does not say that though. The message just says west coast Model S/X before Model 3. You are assuming that Tesla will start with AP2.5 based on past history.

This means new Model S/X owners will get HW3 before older Model 3 owners.

Yes that is correct.

It seems also likely to me that many Model 3 owners will get HW3 before old Model S/X owners.

Again, the message does not say that. You are making an assumption based on past history. In fact the message says Model S before Model 3.

 

[Az_Rael]

This is a lot of debate about a text message from a service center which are well known to be dubious sources of information. These are the same folks who tell us rated range displayed is calculated based on how you drive.

 

[vinnie97]

For the Model 3, if they have to yank out the MCU, I hope they bite the bullet and upgrade that as well.