Place to discuss MS/MX 10 teraflop gaming computer plus possible use of it out of the car - via wifi or as a stand alone console.
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Tesla Gaming
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's the same HW as in current consoles and PCs- actually a bit lower spec than PS5 or Xbox One X (and much lower than better gaming PCs) in part because it's designed as a lower power part....a stand-alone version makes no sense at all, it'd just be duplicating a thing that already exists, and built largely with 3rd party AMD parts anyway.
Consoles are generally money-losers on the hardware.... and there's nothing magic about the games that you'd need to buy from Tesla OTHER than being able to load it specifically to the car- at home you'd just continue to buy as you normally do for PC or console games on the already existing, better spec, PCs and consoles.
Streaming from the car makes no sense either (even assuming the cars network HW is up to the task, which I doubt it is if you want 4k streaming)
Honestly the only way Teslas big gaming push makes any sense is they're expecting people to want to play games when L5 gets here.
Nobody's playing 100+ hours of Witcher 3 while parked in their garage. But might be a nice way to kill a lot of time while your car drives you cross country.
Even better if the second screen in the back can run a DIFFERENT game for your kid that you also charged the owner for.
Consoles are generally money-losers on the hardware.... and there's nothing magic about the games that you'd need to buy from Tesla OTHER than being able to load it specifically to the car- at home you'd just continue to buy as you normally do for PC or console games on the already existing, better spec, PCs and consoles.
Streaming from the car makes no sense either (even assuming the cars network HW is up to the task, which I doubt it is if you want 4k streaming)
Honestly the only way Teslas big gaming push makes any sense is they're expecting people to want to play games when L5 gets here.
Nobody's playing 100+ hours of Witcher 3 while parked in their garage. But might be a nice way to kill a lot of time while your car drives you cross country.
Even better if the second screen in the back can run a DIFFERENT game for your kid that you also charged the owner for.
I def played more than 100 of stardew in the car before I caved and bought it on my switch.
And if you are saying the wifi gear in a $110,000 car is not as good as the $50 one in a house used to stream 4k tv I think we have vastly different opinions about Tesla's forward looking planning.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Are you talking a $50 roku or something? That's the receiver not the transmitter... (if you mean a $50 home router, that's much larger and more powerful a transmitter than the tiny wifi card inside a Tesla).
Stadia isn't streaming 4k games to your house with a commodity mobile-GPU PC over a tiny wifi card at the back-end.
Also, 4k tv from most sources streaming requires 1/3rd to 1/2 the bandwidth 4k gaming does, FWIW.
Apart from that- What does Tesla bring to this market that doesn't already exist?
Teslas disrupt markets with innovation and vertical integration.
Copying what Google is already doing (but it only being available to people with $100,000 cars instead of EVERYONE like with Google) and by using off the shelf AMD parts, doesn't really fit that mold.
Nor does creating Yet Another Game Store For Home Gaming.
The only place Tesla is offering anything unique would be an in-car app and game store, and the value there (for gaming) would largely be once FSD lets you play games while the car is driving you somewhere.... (there'd be value TODAY with certain other apps like Waze or many streaming music apps that you can use even while driving of course)
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
Speedtest says the Tesla gets 13mbps down and 5mbps up. That's better than my house.
TMC Forums - Premium connectivity data speed
TMC Forums - Premium connectivity data speed
As a Tesla owner, if I can upgrade my car ever 3-5 years and it also upgrades my game system I am excited that I have an upgraded car that also upgrades my gaming system. Tesla gets to sell more hardware.
They also are already building an app store with a cloud gaming service, thats not a secret. If there is any way to make more use of that cloud service by allowing me to buy an expensive game like witcher 3 I don't want to have to buy it twice, for both my playstation and my car. And I would would my saves to work on both platforms so I could play in my car and in my house on the save save file.
So they have have to build the user interface gaming infrastructure, they have built the software to manage an app store of games, the have built a cloud gaming service - thats still in the early stages of course. They are already building or have built everything needed to support this for in car use. Now to make profit on it they are going to want to be able to sell apps through this system. Elon has said advertising is not something he is interested in. So it will have to be something you pay for apps for. Why would I redundantly buy games for my car that I would also need to buy for in home use. I would much prefer to be able to play on both, but if I could only choose one I would choose in the home, so the tesla app store would be missing out on a ton of sales.
But if I could buy a game on the tesla app store and play in my house and in my car ill buy it from tesla.
So tesla owners would be the early adopters. Game off your cars system over wifi. There's a huge market of people who DONT have a Tesla who do play games. My they don't build an in home tesla console and you just run it off your computer. But anyone who starts buying games from the tesla app store to play in there home is going to think, "I hail a tesla robotaxi I can play on the ride. Or if I buy a tesla I could play on my road trips."
The bottleneck that you describe as being the wifi hardware in the car seems like one that Tesla could easily solve if they wanted. The ability to stream 4k from the car to your TV and take input from a controller in the house to the car isn't too hard to solve for. Its not to stream for 5 million users. Its 1 user at a time over wifi. So $50 wifi card isn't enough to make this viable. $100? $200? Id upgrade my tesla with a $200 buck piece of optional hardware to play cyberpunk 2077 at home off my car while in my house in a heartbeat.
If tesla is NOT planning this, playstation/nintendo/stream/microsoft should bit calling them up to pitch a partnership asap imo
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
it might well be faster than your house (it's faster than mine too- come on star link!).
It's massively too slow for streaming 4k gaming though.
Stadia requires 35 Mbps minimum for 4k/60.
If the car was the 'server' in this hypothetical it'd need upload speeds that fast.
7 times faster than what you're seeing now. At a minimum.
Really?
Where do you see evidence of a cloud gaming service?
That would be a service where the game runs in the cloud and streams to your car.
The fact they're putting heavier gaming HW physically in the car and expanding local game storage while doing so says they're doing the exact opposite of that.
Except again, it does not appear to BE a cloud service. At all.
The games will run locally on your car far as we know.
Witcher 3 game out in 2015. Has been under 20 bucks on sale any number of times in recent years.
Since they're using standard PC hardware they could easily make it cross compatible without needing to "stream" the actual game anywhere.
<citation needed>
Again the car HW can run the PC version. No reason they can't let you install it on your PC as well without needing "cloud" anything, let alone streaming anything.
That said, LOTS of folks buy games on more than 1 platform.
There's folks who buy a game for a console or PC, but then also buy it for their phone to have a mobile version.
That wouldn't be unusual at all
(Hell there's many people who've bought things like Skyrim or GTA on multiple platforms just to play the same thing on newer HW)
Again this is pretty nonsensical.
First- Appears to be too slow per the speedtest data from the other poster.
Second- why burn expensive car battery life powering a gaming rig for your HOUSE?
Third- the HW itself is... fine... but it's not any more powerful than the type of stuff ALREADY OFFERING this as a service like Stadia.
It essentially would perform poorly, add little value (but a LOT of complexity and support calls), and provide nothing you can't already get today and with a better back end behind it.
.... what?
I legit can't tell what you're even saying here.
If you already have a computer for gaming it's potentially as good, or in many cases better, hardware than is coming in the car.
And again the same version than runs on the PC could run on the car- there's no need for a "special" version other than to have permission to install it in the car... the "home" part gains you nothing special.
Sure.
But you've yet to make any business case for why they would.
While you've been shown a lot of reasons doing so doesn't make much technical, or business, sense.
it adds a lot of cost and complexity and potential support problems for almost no gain to anyone over existing services.
Why?
If there's not a business case for Tesla to do it alone there's even less of one to do it with a partner.
CyberGus
Not Just a Member
sorry, online gaming service.
are you always so hostile? or are you just the type of person who would focus on the fact that I called this a turtle instead of tortoise when talking about a zoo.
the business case is the same as microsoft losing money on the xbox. they can take a cut of the games for eternity. software like margins
edit: I dont read electric anymore but googling to find what tesla calls its online game profiles yielded news to me Tesla is building a new video game and user interface team in Austin - Electrek
im finding it even harder to believe this isn't actually happening now than when I posted the first time
Elon Musk pushes Tesla to have more in-car gaming in preparation for self-driving future - Electrek
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
That means you can play against opponents who are online.
Not that the game runs from the cloud.
Those are fundamentally different services.
if we were discussing the proper diet and habitat of the animal, not understanding what the actual animal is is fairly large an issue.
That's not hostility, it's facts.
There's no evidence Tesla is considering, or working on, a cloud gaming service like Stadia that would include providing a gaming experience at home.
There is considerable evidence they're working on offering in-car gaming to a much higher degree than present.
Again these are fundamentally different things technically and practically and economically.
Those differences are significant and large.
Sure.
They will sell games and apps for you to run on the car. Just like Apple or Google do on your phone for example.
That has nothing to do with cloud-based gaming (which requires entirely different design and infrastructure) though.
If they were doing cloud-based gaming Elon wouldn't have explicitly mentioned the new in-car gaming system has greatly expanded storage (and is designed to add more easily). You wouldn't NEED a lot of local storage if the game wasn't being stored, and run, locally on the car.
if they WERE doing cloud/streamed gaming then they'd just stream it to the car and avoid having to put a moderately high end PC in every vehicle.
Again your original idea of installing a mid-grade gaming PC in every car, and then streaming games from each car is a nonsensical hybrid model from a technology and economics point of view.
You either do streaming on a robust back-end like Stadia that can stream to any device from a central cloud farm.... or you do local gaming on local hardware (as Sony, MS, Nintendo, Apple, etc do).
Every bit if info we have says Tesla is doing that second one.
Trying to do both at the same time is like an ICE hybrid, you end up with the worst of both worlds.
Uh.... you realize both of your links disagree with your original claims, and agree with mine, right?
What Tesla is building is a service to expand in car gaming
Not home gaming.
YOUR OWN FIRST SOURCE said:
(bold added)
YOUR OWN SECOND SOURCE said:
(bold added)
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I guess I just don't understand the basis of your disagreement.
The only 2 sources you came up with to support your argument, it turns out, didn't support it and supported mine instead.
Explicitly saying this was about in car gaming and entertainment with no mention of anything else.
You appear to have invented a service you made clear you don't really understand the workings, technology, or economics of, and decided Tesla is going to build a new business around this thing you imagined while finding no evidence of any kind to support your notion.
Driving with your feet is workable too, it also doesn't make any sense.
Could you put in wifi hardware to the car that, even in a garage with poor signal conveyance, could stream 4k games throughout a large house?
Yes, that's technically possible.
It's just nonsensical for Tesla to do that compared to the cheaper and easier alternatives to game inside your house.
Again-
If they were going to bother hiring people to build a system able to live-stream high end games they'd just stream them to the car as well instead of putting expensive local hardware in each car, and run them on a robust cloud back end like Stadia does.
Then the same service could stream into your home without needing the car involved at all.
This is both technically much simpler, requires much less support, and is far cheaper than distributing a mid-range gaming PC into each vehicle and then layering an entire game-streaming architecture on TOP of that.
But they don't appear to actually be doing either thing at all
Your own sources show they're entirely focused on in car gaming and entertainment, and doing nothing whatsoever in the cloud or streaming space.
This is not surprising for several reasons.
1) Elon's been pretty clear about entertainment IN CAR being a future focus for the company.
2) Unlike home gaming, which is a heavily saturated market Tesla would be bringing nothing new or disruptive to.... in-car entertainment is ripe for disruption, especially if they achieve L5 FSD in their vehicles and can be the only company offering a way to do gaming while your car drives you around.
3) Unlike home consoles where you're forced to lose money on the hardware, nobody will even notice if the few hundred bucks of mid-range gaming HW is rolled into the price of a $100,000 car so they don't need to lose any money up front either, and the app store Tesla cut can be almost pure profit.
I think you need to be more fact-picky when trying to discuss the technical details of a service.
Because just making stuff up that sounds good is likely to get you fact checked by folks who know better.
Look, i made it clear i didnt mean they would stream from a server farm and I meant instead from the car like 3 posts ago and you still havent let it go. This has long since ceased to be a remotely productive conversation
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Because that model makes no sense.
Not technically.
Not economically.
Not user-experience or support side.
It's worst of both words.
Like you've had explained to you several times now.
Your idea makes no sense to offer.
There we can finally agree
