Tesla has allegedly activated a selfie cam Driver Monitoring System

[qdeathstar]

selfish?

I dont think you understood what I was trying to say. I dont want to suppress ota updates as a whole and I certainly dont want to suppress them for those that want the new updated features. all I'm asking is a 'do not disturb' button to stop updates other than truly critical ones from happening to MY car.

why would that offend anyone? I'm not asking to take anything away from anyone!

I'm asking for users have have lockdown choice on their car. their $50k car. lets remember that. it matters.

Maintaining old software has costs and security risks. And being that you are complaining currently about a saftey related update... I’d bet this one would be considered “critical”

You bought a 50k car knowing full well it received OTA updates, let’s remember that. it matters.

 

[linux-works]

having interior cameras or always-live mics (like an alexa) is not something many of us want. if you want that, fine, but please don't argue against freedom of choice. it really should be the owner's choice if they want to allow cameras inside their vehicle that they didn't put there (and FULLY control) themselves.

the car didn't require an inside camera when I bought it. I feel its unfair to activate it without my permission and to remove features from the car that were there when I bought it. we don't know if that's going to happen or not. if elon keeps the wheel tugs for people like me, then this becomes a 100% non issue; as all I'm asking for is to keep using the old system that I'm actually pretty happy with.

both perform the 'is the driver still alive and in control?' check. so I dont know why the wheel tugs would HAVE to go away. its just 1 more option button in the UI to let people decide.

I truly hope they give us the choice to keep the old tugs and not be force to enable inside cameras.

it will be a dealbreaker for me. I know I'm not alone in that feeling, so I hope tesla thinks this thru.

 

[qdeathstar]

having interior cameras or always-live mics (like an alexa) is not something many of us want. if you want that, fine, but please don't argue against freedom of choice. it really should be the owner's choice if they want to allow cameras inside their vehicle that they didn't put there (and FULLY control) themselves.

you have choice. You can put tape over it and not use autopilot or you can sell and get you a Mazda.

both perform the 'is the driver still alive and in control?' check. so I dont know why the wheel tugs would HAVE to go away. its just 1 more option button in the UI to let people decide.

because they don’t work. People cheat. Tesla decided they no long want the liability to having people be able to cheat with autopilot on and killing themselves.

you should be blaming the court system, not asking them to safe you from a Tesla update that was necessitated by the court system.

 

[linux-works]

Maintaining old software has costs and security risks. And being that you are complaining currently about a saftey related update... I’d bet this one would be considered “critical”

You bought a 50k car knowing full well it received OTA updates, let’s remember that. it matters.

I knew it would get OTA and I'm ok with that; but at time of purchase, there was no requirement to activate a camera.

I will admit that part of my ownership experience was to 'eat the dogfood' and see what living with a tesla would be like. I knew there would be some unknowns and surprises, some good and some not good. I work in software (in the car industry, in fact) and so I'm well aware of how to do updates, how to keep update streams separate and linux has been doing that for decades now. (google farked it up by making one big image for android, sort of, rather than keeping things separate, but they did that on purpose, as evil as it was).

technically, you DO want to keep your bugfixes separate from the UI feature streams. devs often have to check out multiple trees to put fixes in. that's how life is when you write software and even more so, when you have multiple targets (hardware variants).

what I'm asking for is reasonable and should have been architected from the very start. they took the lazy way out and didn't allow for true bugfix and security updates that are separate from features. its one of my criticisms of how tesla does their software.

the android model is broken; the linux desktop/server (and embedded) model works; but vendors are always free to mess it up, sadly. linux (and even qnx) can be updated with just fixes and security updates. its entirely the vendor's fault that they mix things when they could have kept them separate.

anyway, it will be interesting to see who is the first car vendor to do the OTA stuff properly. so far, its not tesla, given that they combine things and dont really offer an opt-out other than NOT pressing a nag button.

will be interesting to see how the lucids, rivians and so on handle their OTAs.

I hope someone eventually gets it right and the others learn from that.

 

[qdeathstar]

I feel like the thing you are complaining about (them activating a safety feature) would have been required no matter what. And the courts wouldn’t be interested it preventing Tesla from releasing a safety critical update.

 

[Barklikeadog]

you have choice. You can put tape over it and not use autopilot or you can sell and get you a Mazda.



because they don’t work. People cheat. Tesla decided they no long want the liability to having people be able to cheat with autopilot on and killing themselves.

you should be blaming the court system, not asking them to safe you from a Tesla update that was necessitated by the court system.

What liability? This is a company/CEO that never admits they were wrong. Even if they are wrong, double down and go on the attack.
Not uncommon in the auto industry, where it's cheaper to pay out a few death claims and not do a recall. But at least the CEO
of Ford/Toyota, etc isn't putting some owner on blast in front of the world.

 

[linux-works]

I feel like the thing you are complaining about (them activating a safety feature) would have been required no matter what. And the courts wouldn’t be interested it preventing Tesla from releasing a safety critical update.

to you, its a safety feature. to me, the wheel tugs do the same thing AND don't ever intrude on the privacy of the inside of my car.

outside, do what you want; I'm ok with outside cameras as they perform a needed function and I knew that going in.

the wheel tugs annoy some; I get that. so offer the camera as option #2. but leave option #1 for those of us who prefer it. its just that simple; that's all I'm really asking for.

 

[qdeathstar]

to you, its a safety feature. to me, the wheel tugs do the same thing AND don't ever intrude on the privacy of the inside of my car.

outside, do what you want; I'm ok with outside cameras as they perform a needed function and I knew that going in.

the wheel tugs annoy some; I get that. so offer the camera as option #2. but leave option #1 for those of us who prefer it. its just that simple; that's all I'm really asking for.

The wheel tugs are ineffective

 

[qdeathstar]

What liability? This is a company/CEO that never admits they were wrong. Even if they are wrong, double down and go on the attack.
Not uncommon in the auto industry, where it's cheaper to pay out a few death claims and not do a recall. But at least the CEO
of Ford/Toyota, etc isn't putting some owner on blast in front of the world.

they don’t have to admit they are wrong to be liable.

 

[linux-works]

lets take this to an extreme, just to illustrate the point I'm trying to make.

suppose you took your car in for service and there were some safety bulletins that were not applied to your car, yet. you took your car in for some problem you were having, and they also apply the safety updates. I dont have a problem with that and I dont think that many would, either.

but, suppose they swap out your radio for some other radio, without your permission. would that be ok with you?

its an absurd extreme, but the point should be clear. there are some things that are reasonable for the car vendor to automatically change or fix. there are other things, though, that should be off limits.

I'd argue that significant changes to the feature set or operation style of the car should always be the owner's choice.

the vendor choosing to mix the required fixes with their style changes - that's the problem I'm identifiying, here. there's no technical reason to have to keep the updates as one single thing. perhaps its time that tesla takes this seriously and integrates this duality, before it gets too late in the game (arguably it may already be too late for them; but not for the next e-car company).

 

[linux-works]

The wheel tugs are ineffective

disagree.

works fine. and its clearly a personal choice. stop saying this as if its a fact. its not a fact, [dude]its just, like, your opinion, man.[/dude]

 

[mikes_fsd]

appreciate it if I didn’t have to also have my eyes on the wheel.

You mean hands right?

 

[qdeathstar]

disagree.

works fine. and its clearly a personal choice. stop saying this as if its a fact. its not a fact, [dude]its just, like, your opinion, man.[/dude]

You didn’t see the video of it being defeated easily? Or you can just buy a cheat device....

 

[qdeathstar]

You mean hands right?

well, yes, but... also no.

 

[mikes_fsd]

selfish?

I dont think you understood what I was trying to say. I dont want to suppress ota updates as a whole and I certainly dont want to suppress them for those that want the new updated features. all I'm asking is a 'do not disturb' button to stop updates other than truly critical ones from happening to MY car.

why would that offend anyone? I'm not asking to take anything away from anyone!

I'm asking for users have have lockdown choice on their car. their $50k car. lets remember that. it matters.

No, you just want to dictate to a company how they should deliver OTA updates and with what kind of content!

And if for some reason they were to even accommodate that, you would come back and demand to do code reviews as well!

Because in your past comments you said - specifically about the driver monitoring camera - you wouldn't trust it unless you could verify the code that was running yourself!

 

[DSolie]

I wonder how this will work in pre-internal camera vehicles. My 16' MX doesn't have an internal camera, but I have the FSD hardware and currently use autopilot often.

 

[qdeathstar]

I wonder how this will work in pre-internal camera vehicles. My 16' MX doesn't have an internal camera, but I have the FSD hardware and currently use autopilot often.

i think you will just continue to get the nag...

 

[DSolie]

i think you will just continue to get the nag...

GOOD! As long as my vehicle gets the full FSD version that these new guys get, I prefer the nag over a camera looking at my ugly mug.

 

[linux-works]

No, you just want to dictate to a company how they should deliver OTA updates and with what kind of content!

interesting choice of words, there.

is it being a dictator to point out better ways to accomplish software updates to embedded systems?

some of us have experience in this; and there are best practices in the industry. tesla is taking the lazy way out, as does google with their android. regular linux never went with a monolithic upgrade model (nor did any of the bsd's, and even the commercial unix's that I've used, no one ever did a forklift upgrade of their whole os just to fix security and other misc bugs. windows does that, but that's not a best practice, its just how some lazy software houses do things.

have you ever worked in release engineering? I have. I have some idea of what I'm talking about. I wonder if you do.

 

[qdeathstar]

.

have you ever worked in release engineering? I have. I have some idea of what I'm talking about. I wonder if you do.

Oh boy. Everyone is an expert lol..... I’m sure the people who made the decision you don’t like have some experience as well duuuuude.

FYI, I work on release engineering every night before bedtime and sometimes in the employee restroom....