Tesla in Hawai'i

[Red Sage]

... I won't have to work to loose the weight I gain from too many Cheeseburgers In Paradise ...

 

[Akikiki]

Never forget that the real estate cost in Hawaii also greatly affects how Tesla will be able to roll out Superchargers. I would recommend they'd be installed at the gazillion ABC Store locations (well, 41 on Oahu), but those don't seem to have their own parking lots most of the time. Hmmm... Lahaina Center looks pretty good though. Decent sized parking lot, and a huge parking structure too!

Red Sage, yes there are a lot of ABC Stores. But we locals don't visit those stores very often. If Supercharging is going to be both effective and convenient, it would make more sense for the Superchargers to be a Home Depot, Sam's or Costco like stores than ABCs. What do you think, sir?

 

[Akikiki]

Long term I don't think Superchargers are the answer in Hawaii. They'd be installed as a stopgap until antiquated and obstinate condo associations get their act together. One of the great benefits of a BEV is never having to go anywhere to fuel and waking up every day with a full tank. Condo's need to install charging for their owners and guests. Likewise hotels need to do the same as rental fleets switch over to BEV's.

On a related note, I think that many beach vacation areas need to think about providing ways for their guests to get around without cars. When we're in Kāʻanapali our most frequent trip is 3 miles to Lāhainā and then 3 miles back. We add to congestion in Lāhainā on streets and parking. With a good path we can all walk or ride bikes or e-bikes instead. More enjoyable, less expensive, less traffic in Lāhainā, less parking needed in Lāhainā, and I won't have to work to loose the weight I gain from too many Cheeseburgers In Paradise (along with the IPA that always magically appears).

Marco Island FL is like 4 miles by 4 miles. Nearly every residence is within 2 or 3 miles of every restaurant, grocery, and trinket store. Yet almost everybody drives everywhere even if it's just 1 mile to dinner and 1 mile back. Probably 90% of the traffic could easily be replaced by bicycling. That'd make for a much more enjoyable place. During Jan & Feb many of us do ride but when the weekly people hit they don't think about it and instead clog up the roads and parking lots with rental cars (Mustangs and Corvettes the overwhelming favorites).

Dear ET, yes that would be a perfect world. But one or two EV owners in a high rise are not going to be effective in getting a Condo HOA to install the expensive infrastructure to support EV charging. They simply don't have the mojo to make it happen. Some of our condo owners are already bumping their heads against this wall.

Yay for Cheeseburger in Paradise my friend. We love them.

 

[Red Sage]

Red Sage, yes there are a lot of ABC Stores. But we locals don't visit those stores very often. If Supercharging is going to be both effective and convenient, it would make more sense for the Superchargers to be a Home Depot, Sam's or Costco like stores than ABCs. What do you think, sir?

Seems great to me! I only mentioned the ABC Stores because I know they tend to be within easy walking distance of just about anything else you'd want to do or see on Oahu. They are some truly convenient convenience stores, at least that seemed to be the case the one time I visited, over 25 years ago. Here in Los Angeles, the closest analog would be how there seem to be dozens of 7-11 locations on Sunset Blvd, from one side of town all the way to the other. Well, that, and maybe Starbucks locations everywhere else.

 

[AustinPowers]

To live on Hawaii AND drive a Tesla? Could things get any better? One can dream!

If they ever decide to remake Magnum P.I., the vehicle of choice for Thomas should be a red Model S P100DL...with black Targa roof

 

[T34ME]

it would make more sense for the Superchargers to be a Home Depot, Sam's or Costco like stores

I asked my local Costco store here in SoCal why they removed all their level 2 chargers from their parking lot. They were in prime locations, relatively near the store entrance. They said it was impossible to police all the ICE cars that parked in those spaces.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Dear ET, yes that would be a perfect world. But one or two EV owners in a high rise are not going to be effective in getting a Condo HOA to install the expensive infrastructure to support EV charging. They simply don't have the mojo to make it happen. Some of our condo owners are already bumping their heads against this wall.

Can't disagree. At some point though that will begin to hurt their resale value (and rental income). As more people want BEV's they'll look for places where they can easily charge overnight and skip purchasing in those where they can't (and where the boards seem obstinate and antiquated in general).

 

[Snerruc]

Some math on my cost of operation on the Big Island. My last ice got 20 mpg and premium at Costco was $2.60. My Tesla gets a little better than 3 mi per kw. Electricity costs me .34 per kw. Factor in vampire and overhead losses, and I pay a little more for the Tesla. Don't tell me to get panels. I would have to count the expense of install, etc. amatorized over 20 years against the car. Not a winning situation. Obviously I didn't buy the car for fuel efficiency.. Also, HELCO is almost 50% from renewables.

 

[Snerruc]

And Pi'ilani Shopping Center, Ocean center in Maalaea, Queen Ka`ahumanu Center, Kulamalu Town Center, and a few more?

Please add them to Plugshare. Thanks.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Please add them to Plugshare. Thanks.

They are in plugshare. Have been for some time.

 

[Snerruc]

They are in plugshare. Have been for some time.

Interesting. When I was on yesterday, they wern't showing. Wierd. Thanks.

 

[Akikiki]

Some math on my cost of operation on the Big Island. My last ice got 20 mpg and premium at Costco was $2.60. My Tesla gets a little better than 3 mi per kw. Electricity costs me .34 per kw. Factor in vampire and overhead losses, and I pay a little more for the Tesla. Don't tell me to get panels. I would have to count the expense of install, etc. amatorized over 20 years against the car. Not a winning situation. Obviously I didn't buy the car for fuel efficiency.. Also, HELCO is almost 50% from renewables.

Snerruc, Wow, sorry that PV is not practical for you on B.I. Here on windward Oahu, I did enough PV to zero my townhouse and Model S usage. In about 2 more years the return on investment will be break even and from there on, every $$ stays in my pocket. My best to you.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Electricity costs me .34 per kw. ...Don't tell me to get panels. I would have to count the expense of install, etc. amatorized over 20 years against the car. Not a winning situation.

That doesn't make sense. Hawaii has the fastest payback in the nation for PV, typically 2-5 years. Currently 13% of residents have systems and this is increasing fairly rapidly. The ability to make greater use with storage system such as Powerwalls is only making things rosier.

Solar works so well that HELCO are projecting significant problems in the near future as demand for their generated electricity falls well below what is needed for them to be financially viable and has resulted in their severely limiting their customers from being able to sell back to the grid.

 

[Red Sage]

If they ever decide to remake Magnum P.I., the vehicle of choice for Thomas should be a red Model S P100DL...with black Targa roof

Actually? I always thought that 'Magnum P.I.' was a remake of 'The Rockford Files', and that 'Burn Notice' was a remake of 'Magnum P.I.' It is the Harlowe style field notes/memoirs/narrative that gives them all away.

 

[Red Sage]

Can't disagree. At some point though that will begin to hurt their resale value (and rental income). As more people want BEV's they'll look for places where they can easily charge overnight and skip purchasing in those where they can't (and where the boards seem obstinate and antiquated in general).

I have never come across anyone that was satisfied that their Homeowners Association was reasonable or progressive. Usually, they say things that would discourage someone from living in a condominium or mobile home complex. "Whatever you do -- NEVER move to one of these places!"

 

[Red Sage]

That doesn't make sense. Hawaii has the fastest payback in the nation for PV, typically 2-5 years. Currently 13% of residents have systems and this is increasing fairly rapidly. The ability to make greater use with storage system such as Powerwalls is only making things rosier.

Solar works so well that HELCO are projecting significant problems in the near future as demand for their generated electricity falls well below what is needed for them to be financially viable and has resulted in their severely limiting their customers from being able to sell back to the grid.

Perhaps he lives in the shadow of a mountain, or enjoys having thick trees around the house? I seem to remember some rather misty-moisty parts of Hawaii, down in valleys. Personally, I'd love to have a place that has almost complete sunshine coverage on all sides during every time of year.

 

[T34ME]

That doesn't make sense. Hawaii has the fastest payback in the nation for PV, typically 2-5 years.
Solar works so well that HELCO are projecting significant problems in the near future as demand for their generated electricity falls well below what is needed for them to be financially viable and has resulted in their severely limiting their customers from being able to sell back to the grid.

Perhaps he lives in the shadow of a mountain, or enjoys having thick trees around the house? I seem to remember some rather misty-moisty parts of Hawaii, down in valleys. Personally, I'd love to have a place that has almost complete sunshine coverage on all sides during every time of year.

I have Solar City solar panels on my roof here in Southern California. I use them to charge my Prius Plug-In and run my house. I have them for about 2 years now. My current payback is about 10 years. I expect SCE rates to go up and that will accelerate my payback. Solar panel installation is really hurting SCE so the PUC has given them permission to charge a minimum amount per month!

Solar panels continue to generate electricity with cloud cover. The only thing that prevents them from working is direct shade as from a neighboring structure or trees.

I am 100% satisfied with my system. Solar panels and similar progressive technologies are the future of green energy independence.

 

[Akikiki]

That doesn't make sense. Hawaii has the fastest payback in the nation for PV, typically 2-5 years. Currently 13% of residents have systems and this is increasing fairly rapidly. The ability to make greater use with storage system such as Powerwalls is only making things rosier.

Solar works so well that HELCO are projecting significant problems in the near future as demand for their generated electricity falls well below what is needed for them to be financially viable and has resulted in their severely limiting their customers from being able to sell back to the grid.

Wow, E.T. You have an uncanny handle on what's going on here with solar. You are 100% right. On Oahu, we have max'd out the customers' ability to add solar under a Net Metering Agreement. The utility claims the current amount is all the grid can manage. The replacement for Net Metering is called Grid-Supply and Self-Supply. These require energy storage systems to complement the solar. While the fed tax credit covers energy storage, the state tax credit does not. So many people that didn't get in under Net Metering are waiting for passage of local legislation that includes energy storage in the state tax credit before the move forward.

Maui and Big Island are not quite max'd out, but getting close. But even with room left for solar on Maui and Big Island, there's foot dragging and resistance from the utility since they finally feel the pain of letting customers move to solar.

Those of us that did solar and are under Net Metering feel lucky to have go it done when we did, (when the utility was not paying close attention to the consequences of letting us do it).

 

[Red Sage]

Wow, E.T. You have an uncanny handle on what's going on here with solar. You are 100% right. On Oahu, we have max'd out the customers' ability to add solar under a Net Metering Agreement. The utility claims the current amount is all the grid can manage. The replacement for Net Metering is called Grid-Supply and Self-Supply. These require energy storage systems to complement the solar. While the fed tax credit covers energy storage, the state tax credit does not. So many people that didn't get in under Net Metering are waiting for passage of local legislation that includes energy storage in the state tax credit before the move forward.

Maui and Big Island are not quite max'd out, but getting close. But even with room left for solar on Maui and Big Island, there's foot dragging and resistance from the utility since they finally feel the pain of letting customers move to solar.

Those of us that did solar and are under Net Metering feel lucky to have go it done when we did, (when the utility was not paying close attention to the consequences of letting us do it).

Hmmm... Has the local utility stated what that 'max' is, exactly? I remember a couple of years ago, the utilities in Arizona were complaining that there was 'too much' solar power coming into the grid from residential areas. This, even though they estimated that perhaps 2% of those residences had solar panels. The utilities lobbied, and won, the right to charge residential customers MORE MONEY for PROVIDING electricity, supposedly so that they could 'upgrade' the infrastructure to take the juice. In this way, these residential solar providers could 'pay their fair share' for upkeep and maintenance of the grid, they said. I do believe that was a big huge steaming pile of [BOLSHEVIK].

 

[Akikiki]

Hmmm... Has the local utility stated what that 'max' is, exactly? I remember a couple of years ago, the utilities in Arizona were complaining that there was 'too much' solar power coming into the grid from residential areas. This, even though they estimated that perhaps 2% of those residences had solar panels. The utilities lobbied, and won, the right to charge residential customers MORE MONEY for PROVIDING electricity, supposedly so that they could 'upgrade' the infrastructure to take the juice. In this way, these residential solar providers could 'pay their fair share' for upkeep and maintenance of the grid, they said. I do believe that was a big huge steaming pile of [BOLSHEVIK].

Yes, the utility stated what the max was. It was not based on a per household but was based on the total amount that each household added back to the grid for a final total. (Each homeowners rooftop is going to be slightly different.) I've seen it in the newspaper several times. I don't recall what those numbers were for each island. I do remember that its topped off on Oahu and still room to grow on Maui and Big Island.

The utility has been scolded by homeowners, PV contractors and the state for not investing in grid improvements for several years. The utility just took profits and distributed them without showing a serious interest in grid modernization. Now they are making noise that they want PV and non-PV owners to pay for grid modernization, but they still have not produced a plan that has PUC approval.

Electric rates on Oahu are between .6 and 32 cents per kwh. We pay more than anywhere else in the U.S. The utility predominately uses light crude oil fired plants which is expensive fuel. We early PV adopters feel like we snuck into the circus by lifting the tent flap when no one was looking. We are lucky, but also keep looking over our shoulders expecting the utility is going to find a way to sock it to us.