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Tesla Model 3 Performance vs BMW M3 - The Mic Drop
- Thread starter commasign
- Start date
"Willow Springs - Streets of Willow is a very slow track, with overall average speed of 103 kph (64 mph)."
They are gonna go around the country, find the slowest tracks, beat everyone there and call it a victory.
Except their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th years of production?
Then why is the owner satisfaction only 3/5 while Tesla is 5/5? Also i3 costs as much as an M3! Really?!?!?
The i3 looks like it is giving birth to another car.
Specifications, price, studies, etc are irrelevant given this fact.
1st, because Elon Musk is a very good sales man.
He made people believe a lot of things that are actually not true.
2nd,
Tesla uses Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide battery.
They picked this due to lower price, higher energy density. Its drawback is the lower runaway temperature (not as safe).
Chevy Volt and BMW and many traditional car makers use Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery.
It is more expensive but more safe. It also has longer life.
Other EVs will still run fine when you are replacing your battery.
And you can also figure out the reason why Tesla had to make a very strong frame around the battery.
There is a good comparison here: Types of Lithium-ion Batteries – Battery University
OK. So you are saying that Tesla batteries are more vulnerable and they are thus forced to make them the safest cars in the world?
Would you really want this: An i3 with a supposedly safer battery but gets recalled because it can’t pass basic nhtsa safety tests.
Let’s look at a scenario of degradation. Let’s say that a Tesla battery degrades to under 70% in 8 years. You get a free replacement.
How about worst case scenario. You are at 71% at 8 years. In this case, you are stuck with a car with double the range of the i3. LOL
So, we have 2012 Model S's running around with over 90% capacity left, but their batteries won't last as long what Chevy and BMW are using?? There is also at least one Model S I read about that has something like 400K miles on it and still has 90%+ capacity. The Model 3 battery pack was called the best pack in world by an expert, but Chevy and BMW's are better?? There is much more to this than just what kind of battery it is.
Tesla Model S battery life: what the data show so far
Tesla Batteries Have 90% Capacity After 160,000 Miles, May Last For 500,000 miles | CleanTechnica
From the article - "But, overall, the data offer some basis for confidence that a Tesla Model S will lose—on average—less than 15 percent of its battery capacity over the average 150,000-mile (250,000-km) life of a vehicle."
What you do with the batteries is at least as important as what kind of batteries they are.
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This is one of the tricks.
The graph you showed me is based on what remaining miles the car tells you when you fully charge it. That does not equal to battery capacity.
Check this story here:
Lost battery efficiency after 5 years
And here is why they failed:
"Unbelted, small adult, drivers may be at a higher risk of neck injury in the event of a frontal crash. These vehicles fail to comply with the requirements..."
You're saying the range estimator is lying? That whole thread they are trying figure if there is a problem with the battery or if the car is using more power than it should be. There is no conclusive proof of any of their theories.
Also, if the batteries can go 150K or 500K miles in a Tesla does anyone really care what kind of batteries they are? I've never driven the same car 150K miles. That's around 12.5 years of driving for the average US driver. If they last 500K that's about 40+ years of driving! By then, they probably will have flying cars!
The reason why I find that credible is because I found a research on that battery type: Calendar Aging of NCA Lithium-Ion Batteries Investigated by Differential Voltage Analysis and Coulomb Tracking
I guess we'll see in the long run. However, you do realize that two people complaining about their range out of a 200K owners isn't a tidal wave of evidence.
Can we get a list of tracks that are valid then? Just so I can keep track of which races don't count because the M3 doesn't win.
If the batteries hold up that well there will be a huge market in taking old batteries and converting them for energy storage.
I did some further research on this.
The Model S and X doesn't come with any warranty on capacity:
"The Battery, like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual energy or power loss with time and use. Loss of Battery energy or power over time or due to or resulting from Battery usage is NOT covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty, except to the extent specified in this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty."
"Model S and Model X - 8 years (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015 that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first).
Model 3 with Standard or Mid-Range Battery - 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km), whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity* over the warranty period."
So I think they can't guarantee 70% capacity after 8 years on the previous generation batteries. Now the Model 3 gets the newer design with some added silicon. And looks like they are brave enough to add capacity warranty as well.
Why I'm saying brave is because the only way to test this is literally run an 8 year test. No one has time for that so they do predictions based on accelerated aging and projecting results into the future.
Also I found that there is a specific number of charge cycle where an abrupt capacity degradation happens. It literally goes from ~70% capacity to 20% in just few charges. This makes me question the further use of these batteries in homes. Will see. This abrupt capacity degradation can be avoided by lowering the capacity/volume but Tesla is shooting for higher energy density at the moment.
