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Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!
- Thread starter mpt
- Start date
Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey
I see. Very few Tesla owners who prefer the dealership model.
Apbvguy: can you explain why dealerships are so much better than a direct sales model? If you have genuine benefits you can list that don't include 'protecting the customer' I'd love to hear it. Also explain why Tesla who has no franchised dealerships should be forced into a sales model they don't want.
I see. Very few Tesla owners who prefer the dealership model.
Apbvguy: can you explain why dealerships are so much better than a direct sales model? If you have genuine benefits you can list that don't include 'protecting the customer' I'd love to hear it. Also explain why Tesla who has no franchised dealerships should be forced into a sales model they don't want.
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Though I don't believe Tesla should be forced into selling via a dealership I'll bite on the genuine benefits question . . . It takes a fair amount of capital, energy and focus to open and staff numerous sales and service centers. Tesla has been able to do so to date because of the generally slow roll out of sales and service centers, their focus on major markets and the low volume of vehicles that they have been selling. As decisions on capital investment become more critical (gigafactory, expansion of the line for Models X and E) questions of priority will naturally arise. In that case, a franchised model might fee up the needed capital.
Note that I'm not necessarily arguing that they should franchise (or that they are cash constrained), and there are strong counter arguments as to why a direct sales model is critical to the success of Tesla that may trump the above concerns. But, IMO, the benefit of directing capital to a higher return activity is valid.
apvbguy
Banned
provocation???
if you want to flame and post ad hominem nonsense around here I guess it is good to have connections
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I do not know where you get the idea that I am pro dealership. all I am noting is how emotional some arguments are and how some people are ignoring facts
I was trying to get you to engage. Prove me wrong. Explain what is wrong with that article.
Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey
I got the idea when you said the NY article was ideological and thought the NJ article you posted was a great article. I obviously misread your position.
I'd argue it takes a lot less capital to open up Tesla stores in a mall. How many sq feet is your average dealership? Tesla can run sales out of a store the size of an Apple store (smaller actually) and doesn't need to keep a few million dollars in product on the lot.
Either way it should be up to Tesla to decide and let the residents if NJ or any other state vote with their wallets. If you are correct and that isn't the best strategy for Tesla then they will close their stores in NJ and open up franchised dealerships.
I got the idea when you said the NY article was ideological and thought the NJ article you posted was a great article. I obviously misread your position.
I'd argue it takes a lot less capital to open up Tesla stores in a mall. How many sq feet is your average dealership? Tesla can run sales out of a store the size of an Apple store (smaller actually) and doesn't need to keep a few million dollars in product on the lot.
Either way it should be up to Tesla to decide and let the residents if NJ or any other state vote with their wallets. If you are correct and that isn't the best strategy for Tesla then they will close their stores in NJ and open up franchised dealerships.
apvbguy
Banned
you don't seem to grasp the fact that the laws in effect in NJ and other places were in place long before elon ever dreamed of his car making venture. they were not implemented to "screw" tesla, if you and the author of the NYer piece would have read the article by the lawyer in NJ you'd be aware of that fact.
the path to change is by changing the law via lawful processes it is not done by kicking and screaming like petulant children about how unfair the laws are.
the fact is that maybe the laws have not kept up with the times or technology.
the job at hand for tesla is to try working through the proper processes in a professional manner to cause the effect that elon needs to conduct business the way he wants to.
the dealers associations surely seem to know how to get the laws to work for their benefit, and they called in their chips and got the NJ MVC to slap the attorney from tesla around like a pinata.
like I stated long ago in this thread and was removed from TMC for stating it, tesla needs to learn how to play the game because the tactic they are currently employing is only going to work against their interests.
Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey
I know these laws were in place for decades. There have been new laws and regulations put in place however to 'screw Tesla'.
When the rules are created by a group that pays people to write laws to their benefit then Tesla should just play along? Got it. Tesla is playing the game perfectly. They can't or don't want to only match the political donations the dealership lobby makes to state politicians so they are getting the public on their side by showing how unjust and corrupt these laws are. If they can do this without having to 'play the game' and pay a bunch of lobbyists like you want then even better.
Tesla is putting people in place to work with state legislatures but they also are looking for a fair outcome. Not what the dealerships want.
I know these laws were in place for decades. There have been new laws and regulations put in place however to 'screw Tesla'.
When the rules are created by a group that pays people to write laws to their benefit then Tesla should just play along? Got it. Tesla is playing the game perfectly. They can't or don't want to only match the political donations the dealership lobby makes to state politicians so they are getting the public on their side by showing how unjust and corrupt these laws are. If they can do this without having to 'play the game' and pay a bunch of lobbyists like you want then even better.
Tesla is putting people in place to work with state legislatures but they also are looking for a fair outcome. Not what the dealerships want.
apvbguy
Banned
please elaborate
as for the game, regardless of you, elon or anyone else liking it, the game is always being played on some level
some people know how to play others apparently just whine about how unfair the game is because they cannot get in on it
Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey
Well what happened in NJ for example. Yes, the game is a lot of money in campaign donations. I know how the game normally works. Tesla is taking the other route with public pressure and shining a light on how stupid the dealership's argument and the laws that exist are via the media. That hurts some people's pocket books and you don't seem to like that.
Well what happened in NJ for example. Yes, the game is a lot of money in campaign donations. I know how the game normally works. Tesla is taking the other route with public pressure and shining a light on how stupid the dealership's argument and the laws that exist are via the media. That hurts some people's pocket books and you don't seem to like that.
Remember, Tesla got a dealer license fair and square according to the rules. Then the dealer lobby threw their weight (money) around and got the laws re-interpreted to "screw" Tesla.
Can't blame Tesla for not playing the game by their rules. They are charting their own path. The eventual results will determine which is the correct path.
Also the question of how consumers benefit from dealer franchise laws has not been answered.
Can't blame Tesla for not playing the game by their rules. They are charting their own path. The eventual results will determine which is the correct path.
Also the question of how consumers benefit from dealer franchise laws has not been answered.
Whining that the game is unfair IS part of the game Tesla is playing very effectively. You don't seem to grasp that.
Paying lobbyist and bribing politicians is Dealers game. Tesla knows it will lose if it plays that game. Dealers know that the game Tesla is playing, of bringing mass awareness into this thuggery that's been going on for decades, is going to wipe them into extinction sometime in the not too distant future.
We have already seen back-pedaling by many politicians and even prominent Republicans, and all that happened due to grass roots pressure.
Paying lobbyist and bribing politicians is Dealers game. Tesla knows it will lose if it plays that game. Dealers know that the game Tesla is playing, of bringing mass awareness into this thuggery that's been going on for decades, is going to wipe them into extinction sometime in the not too distant future.
We have already seen back-pedaling by many politicians and even prominent Republicans, and all that happened due to grass roots pressure.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The subtle part of the NJ situation is that Tesla does "violate" part of the law (there's a law that bans manufacturers from selling cars to consumers; I put "violate" because when challenged in court these laws don't always hold up as interpreted by dealers), but at the same time Tesla got their dealer license legally under the law.
How is this possible? It's because the part of the law that deals with dealer licensing does NOT require you to be a "franchisee" in order to get a dealer license. This is a similar situation with what happened in Massachusetts. However, instead of going through a lawsuit against Tesla (which Tesla have won previously in Massachusetts), the dealers just lobbied the governor to add new rules to the dealership licensing process to prevent Tesla from continuing to operate as a dealer.
How is this possible? It's because the part of the law that deals with dealer licensing does NOT require you to be a "franchisee" in order to get a dealer license. This is a similar situation with what happened in Massachusetts. However, instead of going through a lawsuit against Tesla (which Tesla have won previously in Massachusetts), the dealers just lobbied the governor to add new rules to the dealership licensing process to prevent Tesla from continuing to operate as a dealer.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Exactly the point. Tesla's two stores in NJ had been licensed as dealers in New Jersey.
The rules about getting a license did *not* state that a franchise agreement is required. That was changed recently. Now they do require a franchise.
(Just for completeness: There had been a rule that motor vehicle franchisors can sell only through franchisees, but that rule was part of the Franchise Practices Act which according to itself applies only to franchises. However there are different opinions about the latter point due to "definitions" of terms within the FPA which are probably simply minor misnomers. Apparently the dealer association persuaded the MVC to use the misnomers to extend the authority of the FPA beyond itself.)
My interpretation of apvbguy's posts is not that he is pro-dealer, but that for some reason he defends the MVC's recent changes and statements. I say "for some reason" because there were no arguments and no reasoning presented. According to the knowledge and information that was discussed in this thread, I don't see a basis to defend the MVC's decision, and believe that Tesla's superior court filing has merit, and hope that it will succeed.
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I'd disagree with the first part of your post, since that law refers to franchisors (in spite of that unfortunate "definition"), and is part of the Franchise Practices Act which applies only to franchises, and only makes sense for franchises, in general). The way you worded it, is in debate, and not a given at all.
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bareyb
Active Member
Well said. The opposition would love nothing more than get this tied up in the Court system forever all the while draining Teslas reserves. Nope. Public opinion is the path to success when you're right. It's only when you're in the wrong that you need to make back room deals and throw money at Politicians. Tesla is playing this perfectly.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Nothing is getting tied up in court. It is just one of many other pro-EV developments, such as efforts in the legislature to change the law back to allowing direct sales for electric vehicles. Public opinion is what will drive all of those efforts.
Benz
Active Member
The article is good.
Today is April 15th, 2014.
When can we expect the announcement of some kind of a decission on wether Tesla Motors can or can not sell cars directly in New Jersey?
WSJ letter to the editor spreading FUD
Why would WSJ publish such a letter with a question that can be answered easily with a quick glance at Tesla's web site, and give it such a prominent heading, other than to spread FUD?
Regarding the letters of April 7 on the New Jersey law requiring Tesla to sell cars only through dealers: There is some merit to the New Jersey position on car franchises.
One question: If you purchase a Tesla from one of these "retail stores," where do you bring it to be repaired when something goes wrong? Seems obvious that consumers (albeit the one-percenters) wouldn't have an easy time obtaining basic services that "full service" dealerships offer.
Vincent D'Antonio Sr.
Totowa, N.J.
Any WSJ subscribers, please add to comments (you'll recognize mine)
Where Do You Get a Direct-Sale Car Fixed? — Letters to the Editor - WSJ.com
Why would WSJ publish such a letter with a question that can be answered easily with a quick glance at Tesla's web site, and give it such a prominent heading, other than to spread FUD?
Where Do You Get a Direct-Sale Car Fixed?
There is some merit to the New Jersey position on car franchises. One question, if you purchase a Tesla from one of these "retail stores" where do you bring it to be repaired when something goes wrong?
Regarding the letters of April 7 on the New Jersey law requiring Tesla to sell cars only through dealers: There is some merit to the New Jersey position on car franchises.
One question: If you purchase a Tesla from one of these "retail stores," where do you bring it to be repaired when something goes wrong? Seems obvious that consumers (albeit the one-percenters) wouldn't have an easy time obtaining basic services that "full service" dealerships offer.
Vincent D'Antonio Sr.
Totowa, N.J.
Any WSJ subscribers, please add to comments (you'll recognize mine)
Where Do You Get a Direct-Sale Car Fixed? — Letters to the Editor - WSJ.com
I always found this argument fake. Why does NJ allow Apple to sell products in the state then? Yes there are independent shops that can work on iPhones and Macs but all warranty work is done by Apple I'd imagine. Same with Tesla.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
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