Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

[AudubonB]

OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly.


A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.

In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.

...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.

Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.

...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.

...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.


...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.


End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.


Does that sound about right?

Sadly, I fear that no, it does not, Julian. This Motor Vehicle Commission is a regulatory authority, not a legislative sub-body. So it is not a legislative statute that came up today; rather, an authority's edict. Not directly up for the legislature to rule upon...and thus also not something the Guv can take his veto pen to.
So....although by the time the fat.........lady........sings, there might be something for the Tesla community to cheer, it won't be via that path you enumerated.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly.


A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.

In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.

...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.

Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.

...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.

...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.


...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.


End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.


Does that sound about right?

No. Both sides are in the pockets of dealers and not enough people care for it to matter. The only way this begins to matter is Gen 3 $35k or even Gen 4 $31k when the legislstors are more likely to be personally affected.

 

[apvbguy]

OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly.


A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.

first mistake, the senate in NJ is controlled by dems.

In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.

the decision not to play the game seems to be a decision that tesla made

...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.
Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.
...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.
...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.
...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.
End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.
Does that sound about right?

with all due respect, maybe in a land filled with rainbows and unicorns your scenario could play out but in dirty, corrupt NJ the dems are just as easily bought as anyone else. the dealer's group has given loads of cash to both the dems in the legislature and the governor.

 

[Praveer]

Guys, is there any way we can spread the word and have people sign this petition?

Allow customers to buy cars directly from manufacturers. Dealers are optional - The Petition Site

I created this petition after attending today's disappointing NJMVC meeting.

 

[aznt1217]

I wouldn't worry too much. I'm going out on a limb and hoping that the people of NJ who can afford these vehicles are smart enough to order a car based on a friends drive or online. Truthfully it won't change much-- Tesla has its store where it needs to be Short Hills mall. Those in the know will go.

 

[santana338]

apvbguy,

You claimed earlier the score was dealers 3 Tesla 1. I think Tesla has at least 2 wins: NC and NH:

Gas 2 | Bridging the gap between green heads and gear heads.

I've always been proud of the way Tesla has not only remade the car, but was also taking on the outdated dealership model. After they win this battle, maybe Elon will take on the political system and fix that too!

 

[pbleic]

OK, let me see if I understand all this correctly.


A Republican Senate in NJ has done something evidently unjust on behalf of a Car Dealer Association, placing the interests of a hated special interest group of salespeople ahead of the interests of the citizens of New Jersey.

In so doing they have got to first base at the cost of raising the anger of a large crowd. Most curiously they have done so in the absence of any high power representation from Tesla or any big money legal intervention, again from Tesla.

...BUT... Getting to first base counts for squat, because the deal needs to get through a Democratic legislature to pass into law.

Now the battle that matters can begin, Tesla can roll out the big guns and do so with a tidal wave of public support to right an injustice. This Tesla is bound to win in the Democrat-led legislature.

...BUT... The Republican governor has a veto, which on any given week day he can use to overturn the decision of the Legislature as he sees fit.

...BUT... This Governor is a Republican Presidential candidate nominee hopeful. The will of a huge groundswell of angry citizens who do not want to have their rights as consumers shunted for the benefit of some car salesmen is not an attractive target to veto.


...AND... Without going through the process of getting everyone all riled up about the original injustice, that veto would have been much more of a danger than it now is.


End result - Legislature overturns anti-Tesla provisions, perhaps even adds a clause to ratify Tesla's rights to trade. Governor does not veto the legislature.


Does that sound about right?

Where did you get this from?? This was a regulatory action, not a legislative one. To overturn this Tesla needs to either go to the courts (which seems futile as this is a reasonable interpretation of the antiquated 1937 law) OR got to the legislature to pass a new law that will not be vetoed by the governor.

Or

Go to the Supreme Court (after losing in lower courts) arguing that it is a violation of the commerce clause of the US Constitution.

 

[RadicalIgnorant]

opinions are cheap, and everyone can have one, right now NJ has all the cards and it is up to Tesla to prove NJ wrong

Hmmm.... I think lot of you guys are totally wrong at one point. Tesla, as for now, lost nothing. This are NJ residents, who lost and are f-d. And Tesla has lot of work and fights to change the world and I don't know why you assume that Musk & Co. should protect NJ people?

Tesla has demand (in EU & China) to grow with max possible speed for next few years even if most of states banned sales of their cars. It would be just really funny if this best US export product woulc be hard to buy inside US

My point is. It's not Tesla lost case. It's clients loss. Tesla is desirable and don't need NJ (for next few years). And after some time, when there will be hundreds of thousands cars sold each year through the world and case will be familar to literally everyone, NJ will need Tesla to don't look as some Russian style land.

 

[SCW-Greg]

apvbguy,

You claimed earlier the score was dealers 3 Tesla 1. I think Tesla has at least 2 wins: NC and NH:

Count the State of Washington as a win for Tesla too.

The National Dealers Association lined the pockets of 39 Legislators with the maximum contribution of $1800. Quickly (if not covertly) pushed two bills that were specifically designed to either cap Tesla's stores or revoke them... but a wake up call and a last minute push by Tesla Owners and TM too, descended on the state capital, gave rides, sent plenty of emails, and gave an ear full that day. The legislators made changes to the wording allowing Tesla to keep growing, but no new auto companies would be allowed to open direct shops.

Note, it's the democrats just as much as the republicans. Face it, we have incompetent, ignorant, and corrupt government. There are a few exceptions of course, but we need one term candidates.

 

[Norbert]

Where did you get this from?? This was a regulatory action, not a legislative one. To overturn this Tesla needs to either go to the courts (which seems futile as this is a reasonable interpretation of the antiquated 1937 law) OR got to the legislature to pass a new law that will not be vetoed by the governor.

Or

Go to the Supreme Court (after losing in lower courts) arguing that it is a violation of the commerce clause of the US Constitution.

Or all of the above, in so far as that isn't too expensive.

Dealers might be digging their own graves if they oppose Tesla too much, as that might force Tesla to fight for legislation (or a Supreme Court ruling) which removes the franchised dealer monopoly even for existing auto companies. Perhaps the dealer associations do not yet understand that franchises really are not a viable option for Tesla.

I don't know if a customer-based class action suit would be another option. I'd think it should be.

 

[apvbguy]

Count the State of Washington as a win for Tesla too.

The National Dealers Association lined the pockets of 39 Legislators with the maximum contribution of $1800. Quickly (if not covertly) pushed two bills that were specifically designed to either cap Tesla's stores or revoke them... but a wake up call and a last minute push by Tesla Owners and TM too, descended on the state capital, gave rides, sent plenty of emails, and gave an ear full that day. The legislators made changes to the wording allowing Tesla to keep growing, but no new auto companies would be allowed to open direct shops.

Note, it's the democrats just as much as the republicans. Face it, we have incompetent, ignorant, and corrupt government. There are a few exceptions of course, but we need one term candidates.

WA was the 1 in 3-1 and I'll give you NC as well, NH??? so now it appears 3-2 with tesla on the short end.

 

[Julian Cox]

first mistake, the senate in NJ is controlled by dems.
the decision not to play the game seems to be a decision that tesla made

with all due respect, maybe in a land filled with rainbows and unicorns your scenario could play out but in dirty, corrupt NJ the dems are just as easily bought as anyone else. the dealer's group has given loads of cash to both the dems in the legislature and the governor.

I think a little more respect than that is due.

Tesla has money and it also has support. North Carolina they won at the final stage in proceedings having superficially lost at the first.

I saw no Musk or Dairmuid O'Connel on the ground today. Today was not important enough.

Christie is also vulnerable, right now he looks like an ass.

 

[AlMc]

Perhaps one needs to understand how Elon Musk operates. Currently Tesla Motors is supply constrained, not demand constrained. Right now it does not need New Jersey. The company does not advertise, but it benefits from all the media attention it gets from attempts by dealership lobbies to get state governments to thwart interstate commerce and free competitive enterprise. Many people are still unaware of Tesla Motors or its cars. I was a year ago before I bought my shares. I expect that eventually the federal courts will invoke the Constitution's interstate commerce clause and sweep away state requirements for middlemen. That may be about the same time that production is ramped up and almost everyone has become aware of Tesla Motors and its cars. Elon appears to be the one who is writing and acting out a brilliant script.

Bingo Curt! I have read through this entire thread to catch up after work. Thanks to the many people who quickly got up to the regulatory board meeting and spoke their minds. In the short run this may (and did) cause the stock price to drop a couple bucks. But tonight and tomorrow there will be news reports/columns about this. All free publicity.

TM is supply constrained. I live next to NJ and have many friends in NJ. Ultimately this will be an inconvenience to them.

Each time a state regulatory or legislative body bends to the will of the dealerships the media will shine more light on the issue. In their own way, the more desperate the dealerships get the more they are helping TM in the long run.

It will get worse (fighting over this) before it gets better. As someone else put it...We are in early 'stage 2'...'Now they fight you'

 

[electrictorque]

FYI:
the stealerships could be shooting themselves in the foot
Are dealerships helping Tesla Motors? - Teslarati.com

I'm from NJ and one thing I know for sure. this will not stop me from buying a Tesla. this does not stop anyone from buying a Tesla in NJ.

Tesla's are ordered online at the comfort of your own home.

There is one thing this decision did for me: I will never do business with an Auto Dealer in NJ ever again.

I may even start a new hobby: Pretend that I want to buy a car, waste the salesman/manager time and in the end just before I sign any document. just tell them "Remember what you guys did to Tesla? well I changed my mind and don't want to buy this car anymore. I'm going to order a Tesla online instead"

 

[SteveG3]

Where did you get this from?? This was a regulatory action, not a legislative one. To overturn this Tesla needs to either go to the courts (which seems futile as this is a reasonable interpretation of the antiquated 1937 law) OR got to the legislature to pass a new law that will not be vetoed by the governor.

you say this is a reasonable interpretation of the 1937 law based on what?

Tesla this morning said the ruling completely changes the law. while I think it would be naive to take Tesla on face value, I do have some degree of confidence in them based on observing them closely since the spring of 2012. thus, without any contrary evidence I do give Tesla some benefit of the doubt, but do not take for granted that what they say is so.

on what evidence exactly are you basing your conclusions that a) Tesla made a grossly inaccurate interpretation of today's ruling and that b) the committee's interpretation was reasonable?

once again, from their blog this morning, Tesla's clearly spelled out opinion that this was a change of the law rather than a reasonable interpretation of the law,

"The Administration has decided to go outside the legislative process by expediting a rule proposal that would completely change the law in New Jersey."

 

[Norbert]

with all due respect, maybe in a land filled with rainbows and unicorns your scenario could play out but in dirty, corrupt NJ the dems are just as easily bought as anyone else. the dealer's group has given loads of cash to both the dems in the legislature and the governor.

If those are the "rules of the game" in New Jersey, then my feeling would be that even then, Tesla should first exhaust all other options before even thinking of playing along. Even if you'll perhaps say that will be a waste of time. It's not like Tesla's life depends on it.

 

[santana338]

NH = New Hampshire. You know "Live Free or Die". So that makes it 3-3.

I think Tesla should just move the NJ facility up here to Manchester. No sales tax. I'm sure those NJ people wouldn't mind taking a little trip up here to pick up their cars. We'll throw in some maple syrup.

WA was the 1 in 3-1 and I'll give you NC as well, NH??? so now it appears 3-2 with tesla on the short end.

 

[rjcbox]

If this bill passes and Christie runs for president, I want this issue smacked in his face. I really liked him and was thinking about voting for him if he ran, but not anymore.

Absolutely agree

 

[mitch672]

What if Tesla refuses to shutter their showrooms on April 1st? Will Chris Christi send in the NJ National Guard, NJ State Troopers and Local police and arrest Tesla employee's?
That would make a great photo op in the local papers, and would make national news. They could then get a court ruling on the law, which the State thinks they have broken.
You can't fight the good fight, without battles, and letting a court interpret the law might be just the thing to do. The ruling was rushed through with backroom deals, I say shine the light of justice on it, make some headlines, let the people see it in the papers everyday for weeks, make some NOISE!

 

[santana338]

My tinfoil hat analysis of what happened today:

Christie's administration was negotiating with Tesla and the dealers. Christie asks each side for campaign contributions. Dealers wallet whip. Tesla politely declines. Quick regulatory meeting to seal the deal.

Some say Tesla doesn't know how to play the game. Maybe. I think Tesla would be wise to just mark out allies and enemies now for a larger fight later. They have too many cars to build and ship at the moment, but they will be back.

Oh, and for everyone that says the other car makers are against Tesla... WRONG! They would LOVE to sell direct just as much if not more than Tesla. That's what has the dealers so terrified.