Tesla Sales Banned in New Jersey... hopefully not for long!

[pharma5]

Tesla's legal team.

Um, we're supposed to be helping them?

Btw, did relay a message to TSLA on the non-franchisor angle... hoping the fact pattern is sufficiently complete/correct so we can get NJ back on track. Would appreciate any other insight if there are missing pieces so we can fill them in.

 

[neroden]

How are their attorney's incompetent??

Multiple ways, and it's a long set of stories. The real problem is that the execs don't seem to recognize that their in-house attorneys are insufficiently competent. Maybe if Elon is alerted to the fact pattern here, he'll notice that his lawyers aren't really doing their job very well.

 

[hobbes]

New Jersey Bans Tesla to Ensure Buying a Car Will Always Suck

Nice article, also gives some background where the franchise dealer rules came from historically:
New Jersey Bans Tesla to Ensure Buying a Car Will Always Suck | Wired Business | Wired.com

 

[apvbguy]

If Elon did what the status quo thought was "proper", there would be no Tesla.

when elon built his car empire he did that within his own space, now that he needs to operate in other people's sandboxes he needs to learn how to manipulate the owners of those sandboxes in order to get what he wants.

if a company cannot learn to play well with others, then those others can and will make life very difficult for your company and it's products.

 

[techmaven]

No Tesla employees showed up at the hearing.

Are you talking about the hearing at the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission? James Chen, Vice President of Regulatory Affairs and Associate General Counsel at Tesla Motors, Inc. was there to represent Tesla Motors.

 

[apvbguy]

Are you talking about the hearing at the New Jersey Motor Vehicle Commission? James Chen, Vice President of Regulatory Affairs and Associate General Counsel at Tesla Motors, Inc. was there to represent Tesla Motors.

you are correct, he was there to advocate tesla's point of view.

the problem tesla is facing is tesla's overall lack of understanding of how political bodies operate and this hole in elon's thinking seems to have had a part in the negative outcome.
elon's fanboys will respond with how successful elon has been with his unorthodox ways and that is true but now he needs to deal with well entrenched political bureaucracies who are doing their best to maintain the status quo, they hold all the high cards.
elon's stamping his feet about it is probably not going to effect any changes.

 

[techmaven]

elon's stamping his feet about it is probably not going to effect any changes.

Actually, Tesla's exposure of this issue to the voters is the only legitimate way for this to change. The voters, probably to a 80+% level would support Tesla's point of view on this subject. That is the #1 weapon that Tesla has with this issue. Any other maneuver or political hand shaking is just that... politics. If this issue was brought forth as a referendum, Tesla would win the right to have a dealership (that operates within the laws regulating dealerships) in every state of the union.

At the moment, I suspect telling someone they can't have a Tesla is an even greater part of the allure and contributes to the Tesla ownership experience. None of us here would let this kind of obstacle prevent us from buying a Model S or X.

 

[StephenM]

elon's fanboys will respond with how successful elon has been with his unorthodox ways...

(/raises hand)
I wouldn't confuse Elon's frustration with the process, with Elon having a lack of understanding of how politics works. IMO this is just a case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object (Tesla and the Auto Dealers respectively) and public sentiment favors Tesla's position on the matter so although it may be a tough slog I think Elon and Co. will prevail.

 

[apvbguy]

(/raises hand)
I wouldn't confuse Elon's frustration with the process, with Elon having a lack of understanding of how politics works. IMO this is just a case of an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object (Tesla and the Auto Dealers respectively) and public sentiment favors Tesla's position on the matter so although it may be a tough slog I think Elon and Co. will prevail.

Actually, Tesla's exposure of this issue to the voters is the only legitimate way for this to change. The voters, probably to a 80+% level would support Tesla's point of view on this subject. That is the #1 weapon that Tesla has with this issue. Any other maneuver or political hand shaking is just that... politics. If this issue was brought forth as a referendum, Tesla would win the right to have a dealership (that operates within the laws regulating dealerships) in every state of the union.

I don't think people realize how irrelevant public opinion is in this matter. a few hundred EV acolytes isn't really isn't going to move the needle
a referendum? like the politicos who pushed for this reg are going allow a referendum, come on get real.
as for the slog, maybe elon's views would prevail if this ever went the distance but the path to that outcome will be awfully long and filled with obstructions

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

It's sad but funny that folks in some auto company board rooms in Germany, Italy and Japan are probably having a good laugh about how some Americans are giving their own home-grown, superior product - that they should have been proud to support - such a hard time.

 

[apvbguy]

At the moment, I suspect telling someone they can't have a Tesla is an even greater part of the allure and contributes to the Tesla ownership experience. None of us here would let this kind of obstacle prevent us from buying a Model S or X.

nobody is saying that a person cannot buy a tesla, the battle is about who sells the car or how it is sold

- - - Updated - - -

It's sad but funny that folks in some auto company board rooms in Germany, Italy and Japan are probably having a good laugh about how some Americans are giving their own home-grown, superior product - that they should have been proud to support - such a hard time.

those european guys have to navigate the state laws here in the US as well

 

[slipdrive]

I have wondered why this battle hasn't been framed more directly. The cars are so starkly different. It is the BEV aspect that distinguishes here. There could rationally be an "exemption" from state commerce laws, possibly federally, for advancing the BEV technology. Tesla has brought BEV within reach economically, barely. They likely could not do it using the distorted and antiquated dealer franchise model. It would not be tax dollars shifted, but monopoly profits pocketed by NADA members. Of course that's the whole point.
It took an act of Congress to break strangleholds and force regional electric utilities to buy independent power at a fair price. Unfortunately, to force real change in a sick auto industry, it may be headed there...in my view.

 

[NigelM]

nobody is saying that a person cannot buy a tesla, the battle is about who sells the car or how it is sold

It's about the auto-dealers trying to make it as difficult as possible for people to buy Tesla cars. They want it to be inconvenient and distracting in the hope that you won't purchase a Tesla and the strategy is working; you yourself started to question how you might get your car delivered and complained about the prospect of spending time getting the registration done.

Exhorting everyone to play by the existing rules will not change the way things get done. It is possible to knock down a wall by banging one's head against it, but one has to accept that there'll be a few headaches along the way.

 

[dalalsid]

I say this is a long term good thing. I expect that the Model X will get the same rave reviews as the Model S (Car of the Year, Consumer Reports pick etc. etc.) and then when the Model E launches, I expect more of the same. At which point the general public that is already pissed off with dealers will be even more pissed off with their states that they cant buy the best new American made car in decades without going through hoops in their state while the Chinese, Europeans and anyone else in the world can buy them without any hassle. Right now people who have heard about Tesla are a small minority - financial, techie and auto nerds. This kind of stink will make everyone aware of them.

 

[johnnydop]

Tesla Business Model in N.J. `Unlawful': Appleton

Anyone else see this interview? I wish it had gone on longer. The economist would have destroyed this clown.

Tesla Business Model in N.J. `Unlawful': Appleton: Video - Bloomberg

Man o man this guy makes me want to scream. His reasoning is so weak and obscure.

To paraphrase:

"This statute is intended to protect price competition and public and highway safety".

What? Huh? Public and highway safety?

Tesla already proved they will not skirt any issues of defects and have already voluntarily issued a recall on a part they think will under perform, not has already underperformed and killed 5 people (ala GM).

 

[jp158]

We the people need these guys like we need to get Cancer!
How do they even exist...???

 

[Doug_G]

One post moved to snippiness.

 

[ggr]

this goes back to an earlier comment that I made, which was elon is not playing the game properly. if he was he'd have hire a professional trentonite to be his eyes and ears in trenton that person would have alerted telsa to the troubles ahead and could have been a counter to the BS the NJ dealers group was spreading around town,

You keep reiterating the same point. But I (and apparently others) disagree with you. Tesla doesn't want to play the game the traditional way. They want to be, and are being, disruptive in many different ways, such as the vehicle itself, the manufacturing processes, the distribution network, the supercharger network, and the financial tools. I'm afraid you're the one not seeing the point.

 

[kishdude]

Not sure if anyone else has posted this, but here is a link to a WH petition to allow Tesla to sell directly in all 50 states. It has over 100,000 signatures already:

allow Tesla Motors to sell directly to consumers in all 50 states. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

 

[Jason_T]

pardon my ignorance, but since when the dmv is a legislative body?