Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Fact Checking]

So in your world the Koch's right to profit from Canadian tar sands oil fields trumps the property rights, water rights and religious rights of Indian reservation owners, and their rights to peacefully protest the violation of those property rights, water rights and religious rights by the Keystone Pipeline?

The libertarian in you should be deeply upset at this act of using corrupt state power to dispossess privately owned land.

The worries of the property owners were well founded:

Keystone Pipeline Leak Was Twice as Big as Previously Thought | Smart News | Smithsonian

So to make it clear what happened, this is how close the Keystone Pipeline goes to Standing Rock Reservation (Sioux County):

Note that:

• While the pipeline doesn't go through the reservation, any oil spill near the river or the rivers going into Missouri River would pollute the waters and land downstream and thus violate the property rights of the Standing Rock owners of land. Oil spills are not an "if" but a "when" - and the Obama administration recognized it when they stopped federal approval of the project.
  
• Note the "1851 Treaty Camp" site the pipeline goes straight through - the irony is heavy there.
  
• Note the section marked as "Archeological sites preemptively bulldozed on Sept. 3" ... a blatant violation of religious rights.
• Note that the earlier pipeline route (dashed line) was rejected by regulators due to the danger to the drinking waters of Bismarck. Violating the water rights of Sioux County instead is ... how democracy works according to @RobStark?

 

[Buckminster]

How did Elon not have a hand in this?
Helicopter Chain Saw Facts | Viral Helicopter Chain Saw Video

 

[EVMeister]

How did Elon not have a hand in this?
Helicopter Chain Saw Facts | Viral Helicopter Chain Saw Video

Because chopping down bits of trees isn't really his thing?

 

[Christine69420]

How did Elon not have a hand in this?
Helicopter Chain Saw Facts | Viral Helicopter Chain Saw Video

Because it's old tech? And already popular in Norway?

 

[Christine69420]

Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

Hvilke elbil-modeller har de mest fornøyde eierne i år? Se topp-10 listen blant norske elbileiere her.

As many as 67.56 per cent of respondents give top scores and say they are "very satisfied" with their electric car, 24.46 per cent respond "satisfied" - while only 1.57 per cent are at the opposite end of the scale and have ticked off to the answer "very dissatisfied". The percentage that is just "dissatisfied" is the lowest, 0.77 percent.


Newcomer at the top

At the very top of the satisfaction peak is the newcomer Tesla Model 3, closely followed by its big brothers Model S and Model X.

VG's technology website Tek.no has also written about the survey, where Tesla's communications manager Even Sandvold Roland naturally says that he is happy with the results, but he also says that the company is working to establish a number of new service centers in Norway.

- It is nice to see that this survey also confirms that our customers are very satisfied. We have made great strides in terms of service capacity over the past year. Last summer, the wait time for service hours in the Oslo area was four months, now it is about two weeks, he tells the website.


Norwegian electric car owners top 10

These models have the most satisfied owners according to the Electric Car Association's survey. (The brackets show the percentage that said they were "very satisfied" with the car model.)

Tesla Model 3 (81.99)
Tesla Model S (81.94)
Tesla Model X (81.53)
Kia e-Niro (79.27)
Hyundai Kona (78.14)
Jaguar I-Pace (77.96)
BMW i3 (74.15)
Hyundai Ioniq (73.98)
Opel Ampera-e (73.11)
Audi e-tron (71.43)

Background: Facts about the Electric Car 2019

 

[kbM3]

LG Chem mass producing NCM cyclical batteries for Tesla

Interesting additional info about GF3’s battery supply, although it contains a confusing comment about “longer driving distances per charge” on these batteries vs. Pana’s.

 

[KarenRei]

Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

Hvilke elbil-modeller har de mest fornøyde eierne i år? Se topp-10 listen blant norske elbileiere her.

As many as 67.56 per cent of respondents give top scores and say they are "very satisfied" with their electric car, 24.46 per cent respond "satisfied" - while only 1.57 per cent are at the opposite end of the scale and have ticked off to the answer "very dissatisfied". The percentage that is just "dissatisfied" is the lowest, 0.77 percent.


Newcomer at the top

At the very top of the satisfaction peak is the newcomer Tesla Model 3, closely followed by its big brothers Model S and Model X.

VG's technology website Tek.no has also written about the survey, where Tesla's communications manager Even Sandvold Roland naturally says that he is happy with the results, but he also says that the company is working to establish a number of new service centers in Norway.

- It is nice to see that this survey also confirms that our customers are very satisfied. We have made great strides in terms of service capacity over the past year. Last summer, the wait time for service hours in the Oslo area was four months, now it is about two weeks, he tells the website.


Norwegian electric car owners top 10

These models have the most satisfied owners according to the Electric Car Association's survey. (The brackets show the percentage that said they were "very satisfied" with the car model.)

Tesla Model 3 (81.99)
Tesla Model S (81.94)
Tesla Model X (81.53)
Kia e-Niro (79.27)
Hyundai Kona (78.14)
Jaguar I-Pace (77.96)
BMW i3 (74.15)
Hyundai Ioniq (73.98)
Opel Ampera-e (73.11)
Audi e-tron (71.43)

Background: Facts about the Electric Car 2019

E-tron at the bottom of the list... interesting. I wonder if it's due to range disappointment.

 

[Unpilot]

So my brother just told me he pulled the trigger on a M3.

He should get it in a week.

 

[Christine69420]

E-tron at the bottom of the list... interesting. I wonder if it's due to range disappointment.

Well the latest video from Bjørn where he tests the range of the new Model X have some interesting numbers. Not favouring the e-Tron.

Atleast it's doing better than the e-Golf (in the survey). Better than anything from Volkswagen really. And better Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, anything from Mercedes, Mitshubishi MiEV, eSmart, and the Fiat e500.

Not bad for an e-Tron.

 

[Krugerrand]

You have the right to protest.

You don't have the right to stop someone else performing their job and carrying out legal business.

You don't get that right because you believe you are on the side of angels.

That goes to abortion protestors as well as climate protesters. Left,Right, and Center.

Democracy can't function like that.

You’re being obtuse.

 

[Krugerrand]

Members of the EV Norway association did a satisfaction survey earlier this month - and recently updated the results page:

Hvilke elbil-modeller har de mest fornøyde eierne i år? Se topp-10 listen blant norske elbileiere her.

As many as 67.56 per cent of respondents give top scores and say they are "very satisfied" with their electric car, 24.46 per cent respond "satisfied" - while only 1.57 per cent are at the opposite end of the scale and have ticked off to the answer "very dissatisfied". The percentage that is just "dissatisfied" is the lowest, 0.77 percent.


Newcomer at the top

At the very top of the satisfaction peak is the newcomer Tesla Model 3, closely followed by its big brothers Model S and Model X.

VG's technology website Tek.no has also written about the survey, where Tesla's communications manager Even Sandvold Roland naturally says that he is happy with the results, but he also says that the company is working to establish a number of new service centers in Norway.

- It is nice to see that this survey also confirms that our customers are very satisfied. We have made great strides in terms of service capacity over the past year. Last summer, the wait time for service hours in the Oslo area was four months, now it is about two weeks, he tells the website.


Norwegian electric car owners top 10

These models have the most satisfied owners according to the Electric Car Association's survey. (The brackets show the percentage that said they were "very satisfied" with the car model.)

Tesla Model 3 (81.99)
Tesla Model S (81.94)
Tesla Model X (81.53)
Kia e-Niro (79.27)
Hyundai Kona (78.14)
Jaguar I-Pace (77.96)
BMW i3 (74.15)
Hyundai Ioniq (73.98)
Opel Ampera-e (73.11)
Audi e-tron (71.43)

Background: Facts about the Electric Car 2019

Well, that can’t be right. Tesla service sucks. Fake news.

 

[Fact Checking]

LG Chem mass producing NCM cyclical batteries for Tesla

Interesting additional info about GF3’s battery supply, although it contains a confusing comment about “longer driving distances per charge” on these batteries vs. Pana’s.

I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

 

[dc_h]

View attachment 457198
Percent of TSLA selling by shorts today: 65%

Meanwhile, in the Wall Street Psychiatric Clinic
"Nurse, I have Mr. Papafox on sedatives. Whatever you do, don't show him today's percent of selling chart. Otherwise, we'll never cure this manipulation obsession of his."

They must have read our updated quarterly estimates of 81,050 to 82,500 Q3 deliveries. And they saw Shanghai will build the model 3 without electricity and use hand carts.

 

[JRP3]

I don't know enough about the Fed to know if these recent actions are as concerning as claimed in this piece. Thoughts?

 

[kbM3]

I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

I have trouble believing the Chinese version of the model three standard range, will have longer range, than the rest of the world. Battery researchers often like to quote their battery capacities as miles driven. Even though this makes no sense, they often do it. Even Jeff Dahn did with the 1M mile battery.

My guess would be that LG Chem released some technical information, and it was misinterpreted by media.

I.e. if it is more energy dense, I would imagine that would go to reducing weight and cost, not to increasing battery size.

 

[mongo]

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

Probably, with the trade off of less power. Which is likely a non issue for a lower performance variant (max charging rate may also be impacted). I think increased cycle life too. (Tesla Energy type).

OT:
The James Bond movie The World Is Not Enough had helicopers with saw blade.

 

[elasalle]

I have trouble believing the Chinese version of the model three standard range, will have longer range, than the rest of the world. Battery researchers often like to quote their battery capacities as miles driven. Even though this makes no sense, they often do it. Even Jeff Dahn did with the 1M mile battery.

My guess would be that LG Chem released some technical information, and it was misinterpreted by media.

I.e. if it is more energy dense, I would imagine that would go to reducing weight and cost, not to increasing battery size.

If Battery Has longer range, They will use a smaller Battery Pack ...

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

You have the right to protest.

You don't have the right to stop someone else performing their job and carrying out legal business.

You don't get that right because you believe you are on the side of angels.

That goes to abortion protestors as well as climate protesters. Left,Right, and Center.

Democracy can't function like that.

without protesters causing mass inconvenience my wife would not have the right to vote, and india would still be ruled by the british.

 

[JRP3]

A good article from last year about NMC 811 advances. Exciting Developments In NMC 811 Lithium Battery Technology | CleanTechnica
I don't think a 36% density increase over current NCA is possible yet.

 

[KarenRei]

I've highlighted new information:

LG Chem has begun to mass produce batteries for Tesla’s Model 3 electric vehicles from its Nanjing plant in China, according to industry sources Sept. 18.

The US-based EV maker will be using LG Chem’ 21700 type batteries using NCM811 that boast a nickel proportion of 80% or more. The LG company previously supplied the NCM811 to electric buses. This is the first time to supply an automobile, the sources said.

Until now, Tesla has been supplied by Japan’s Panasonic, which uses NCA, which is another type of high nickel cathode material.

LG Chem convinced Tesla to switch to NCM811 batteries based on the longer driving distances per charge. It also hinted that it may be able to begin mass producing NCMA batteries, which is even higher in nickel, beginning in 2022 to apply to EVs.

The Model 3, which now receiving pre-orders in China, can run 480km on a single charge for the standard model. The cars sold in Korea are slightly heavier and have a single charge driving distance of 353km.

Upon requests from Tesla, LG Chem is now preparing to expand its battery lines. Already, it has doubled the production volume from its Nanjing plant from last year. Nanjing is where LG said in January this year that it would invest up to 1.2 trillion won to expand the facilities.

According to market research firm SNE Research, LG Chem is expected to churn out up to 1 billion cylindrical battery cells per year from Nanjing. In 2017, the firm was producing 630 million such cells.​

Does 480 km (298 miles) vs. 353 km (219 miles) range mean that LG Chem's new NCM811 based cells have 36% higher energy density?

This is utter tripe. China rates cars on NEDC, a nonsensically range-inflating cycle. South Korea rates cars on a cycle that yields even lower ranges than the EPA 5-cycle. 480km is also not the rating for Chinese Model 3s (SR+) with some super new "LG cell", but rather their current production from Fremont.

Here's South Korea's rating for the exact same SR+ cars from Fremont:

The author of this article is grossly unaware of the difference between drivecycles. I expect better from this forum, however.

And LP didn't "convince Tesla" of the superiority of anything. They went with what they could get in the crazy-short-notice of GF3 construction that would yield acceptable performance. They'll be ditched as soon as Tesla switches to their own cell production.