Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ZeApelido]

Here is another basic reason why Tesla is pursuing silicon anodes for Project Roadrunner: there is no graphite on Mars, but there's plenty of silicon.

Sand (Silicon Dioxide) is the most prevalent mineral on Mars. In most all Elon's long-term drives to create new technology, the underlying motivation is "will it work on Mars?"

Ask yourself why Tesla produces zero wind turbines, even though they have the world's most efficent electric motor/generators, and the world's best power electronics? The atmosphere on Mars is too thin to produce useful amounts of energy with wind power.

Instead, Tesla owns a solar energy division, who's products will definately be needed at the 1st Mars propellant plant for SpaceX.

Telsa is also rumored to have tested its prototype batteries in extreme cold conditions, another requirement for working on Mars.

Another example is the decadal effort to create A.I. hardware and software. Robotic advance missions will need to setup propellant production facilities before the first human crew arrives, and even before the first rocket can depart the Martian surface.

Elon takes a wholistic approach to the work undertaken by each of his enterprises. In each of these cases, we see terrestrial development to mass production and economies of scale, in advance of becoming an integrated, essential component of the larger plan.

Starlink is another example. The technology is being developed now and constantly being refined while early deployment ramps, and volume builds to a critical mass. It's no coincidence that SpaceX will require a high-speed global data communications network to support its effort on Mars. It will be far simpler and cheaper to replicate a working network than to create one from scratch once we're living and working on Mars.

Appropos of nothing in particular, I'm working to free up a couple hundred K in advance of a potential Starlink IPO in a few years, with an eye to Elon's recent comments that longterm TSLA shareholders may receive early access normally restricted to large funds and other Wall St. insiders.

Not Advice.

Cheers!

And tunnel boring.

 

[Cosmacelf]

You should have seen the reaction within my own family when we bought our Model X. My brother still cannot get over it and still calls it a “contraption”. It is a pity. I used to have a very good relationship with my brother; called each other on a weekly basis but ever since we bought the Tesla he hardly calls me anymore, just the birthday stuff. Sad..

Has he driven it?

 

[GOVA]

Don't like my car spying on me. If this comes to be, I'll be putting some tape over that camera.

Too late as others have said. They already have your pron profile anyway, so resistance is futile.

 

[jw934]

Agree with Artful Dodger and BrownOuttaSpe, this makes lots of sense - in a few years, Elon will give long term Tesla retail shareholders higher priority to buy the Starlink IPO. -

 

[Tslynk67]

Seems like Tesla is trying to use the internal Model3/Y cam to dectect driver attentiveness according to green:
https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1312607693249667073

Nice if there would be no nags to hold steering wheel any more if it detects you are attentive, on the other hand I am not really comfortable being filmed all the time. Guess you can´t have both at the same time...

Maybe I'm naïve, but what's the problem with the car monitoring your attentiveness? What if this was only ever held in the car's memory itself, for a limited time and encrypted, only to be made available in case of an accident?

I have no problem with that, doubly-so if it leads to less casualties.

 

[jbcarioca]

...

Putting these together such that 2+2=5, Tesla can make a subcompact car of unparalleled safety making it appropriate for all roads and markets of all stripes, especially when robotaxis remove the upfront cost of car use, meeting the strictest safety standards while fitting neatly into narrow lanes and parking spaces.

It is also consequential that, unlike most OEM's, each of those newly revealed elements (i.e. structural battery, 'tabless' cells, vertical cooling, octovalve, very large aluminum castings, chemistry selection to match use case) result in large cost reductions with large capacity increases and reduced capex. Skipping all the rehash fo each fo these we have mostly ignored the direct consequences:

Tesla can now design and build very cheap vehicles quite efficiently. It seems obvious that they will choose both German and Chinese designs as platforms that can flexibly accommodate multiple form factors (e.g. suv, taxi, van, pickup...). Nothing much has been said about these BUT we already see the future in Model S and X, Model 3 and Y. We even see hints of that with Semi and Roadster both of which allegedly have significant elements common to other Tesla products. That Tesla would NOT choose to enter worldwide markets with such products would be the surprise. There are copious hints about these things but nothing direct. Further all of these will certainly be coordinated with TE products including Autobidder with the combination of storage and generation products.

People who think this will not be part of the Tesla five year horizon are mostly not thinking logically about the Tesla mission. The constraining variables are all related to the supply of engineering talent. We already see that factory and raw materials will not be allowed to be continuing constraints. Engineering talent, though, is far more difficult too obtain and develop.

Just imagine cheap, safe, reliable, durable urban/suburban world vehicles. This will all be just like telephones, Model T, VW, 2CV, electricity and running water.
Regulations alone cannot stop this advance, any more than it did the others. Regulations can speed or slow the process but cannot stop it.

There are already winners in calories that NA-centric observers cannot perceive.

Missing from this is large commercial vehicles and really small ones. Why? Because nearly all the OEM's are either small and devoted to bodies, or huge and deeply engaged in electrification right now. There we have Daimler, Epiroc (ex Atlas Copco), Bosch, BYD etc) all of which are making industrial strides. Then there are now smaller electric vehicles like those already seen in crowded cities all over much of Europe and Asia.

We also completely ignore urban mobility and vehicle sharing, that has been around for some time in Europe (France has a car, Slovenia has had them for some time) and even Brazil (Fortaleza began such a program four years ago) as well as many places in Asia. Tesla has had a vision many people dismiss and think Elon is foolish to discuss it. That vision is upscale from the ones working mostly because it is based on level 5 autonomy. Chinese players are very prolific and France's Bolloré is deeply involved:
blue-applications

All this might seem off-topic. It is not. Tesla is definitely headed towards these approaches with China and German designs.Almost all of us are victimized by limited visions predicted only on traditional single owner, suburban style similar to the global upper middle class.

FWIW, this is not my personal world, but one who travels widely needs to be blind to to see it. I've posted phots from Bergamo, Ljubljana, Fortaleza, Nice andSingapore). Singapore shows how well the Bolloré system can work:
electric-car-sharing-service-reaches-its-one-millionth-rental

When Elon says Tesla will be in India next year, what do we really think he means?

 

[hobbes]

Maybe I'm naïve, but what's the problem with the car monitoring your attentiveness? What if this was only ever held in the car's memory itself, for a limited time and encrypted, only to be made available in case of an accident?

I have no problem with that, doubly-so if it leads to less casualties.

Thing is it is hard to be sure that the data stays under my control as you suggest. At least for training of the NN they have to pull it and might have already been doing it for a while while I was not aware of that. But lets not get into that discussion further, this is very much a matter of personal attitude towards data privacy I think, and discussions will lead nowhere and are OT here anyway.

 

[lafrisbee]

You should have seen the reaction within my own family when we bought our Model X. My brother still cannot get over it and still calls it a “contraption”. It is a pity. I used to have a very good relationship with my brother; called each other on a weekly basis but ever since we bought the Tesla he hardly calls me anymore, just the birthday stuff. Sad..

I rated your post about your relationship with your brother Because it makes YOU look much worse than it does him. What is in your heart? Is the effort not worth it to YOU?
YOU've given up although YOU could improve his life by achieving a breakthrough of this impasse. YOU have the truth on your side, and the knowledge but YOU have given up.
If YOU cannot change someone's mind that is so close to YOU, and meant so much to YOU...
Heck, I've changed My Father's mind. He's bought the stock, and is not completely against the idea of owning a Tesla. And the old man drives Bentley's and high end Mercedes to the Yacht club. (His everyday car is a Posh van.).
Now if your Brother is just one big Dick then sure cut him loose. Fortunately I have been able to do that with the rest of my siblings because they poorly planned their last despicable act. Thankfully! (long story, not suited, even vaguely, for this forum, never mind this thread.)

 

[lafrisbee]

Seems like Tesla is trying to use the internal Model3/Y cam to dectect driver attentiveness according to green:
https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1312607693249667073

Nice if there would be no nags to hold steering wheel any more if it detects you are attentive, on the other hand I am not really comfortable being filmed all the time. Guess you can´t have both at the same time...

One day, 22 years ago, in Cop School we were told that as LEO's we could use our own money to put a dash camera in our patrol cars. I was the only person that relished the option, most were extremely against the idea. Even after I explained my position only 5% thought I was being rational because it was believed that just like an LEO's notes, the tape would be sought after to prove that I broke the law. ( And yes, when I was active and took notes through the day I would write my end of day reports and pretend to tear up my daily notes in front of other officers so they could testify they saw me tearing up my notes at the end of the day so they were unavailable for further investigation. Cops have been paranoid for a lot longer than BLM.)
My reasoning: It is far more likely for some Jackwipe to do something wrong while not knowing they are being taped, than for me to do something wrong knowing I am being taped. I also grew up on a Military base, and have come to understand that Big Brother is always watching you, and it is more often for your benefit if you are a good person.

 

[lafrisbee]

Don't like my car spying on me. If this comes to be, I'll be putting some tape over that camera.

So what of the car sensors monitoring your health?
I've posted before how the vehicle will eventually be a "nurse" of sorts, especially when it becomes FSD. Here is an undesirable scenario that will happen soon enough...
Grandpa will get in the car to come for Thanksgiving Dinner. With FSD it is not a big deal, even if Grandpa is 80 yrs old and lives 2 hours away. Two hours gives him time for a nap.
His car pulls in your driveway. The extended family goes out to greet him, and he doesn't get out of the car....ut oh? Grandpa died. Happy Thanksgiving.
So no. Right away some degree of health monitoring will be a valuable feature. The vehicle can monitor your health status, and alert the nearest Emergency Room while rerouting the vehicle to the ambulance entrance.
Not allowing a car to "see" you will severely limit the functionality of the device.

 

[Knightshade]

Thing is it is hard to be sure that the data stays under my control as you suggest. At least for training of the NN they have to pull it and might have already been doing it for a while while I was not aware of that.

Tesla data sharing of personally identifiable data has always been opt-in AFAIK so they couldn't have done it without you being aware of it. Enough folks with root access to the systems NOT working for tesla so we'd have known if they weren't respecting that setting on the car... (not to mention the butt kicking the EU would've given them given how badly they already slap tesla around on nerfing FSD/EAP features)

 

[wipster]

You should have seen the reaction within my own family when we bought our Model X. My brother still cannot get over it and still calls it a “contraption”. It is a pity. I used to have a very good relationship with my brother; called each other on a weekly basis but ever since we bought the Tesla he hardly calls me anymore, just the birthday stuff. Sad..

Does he still use a landline?

 

[kanweg]

So what of the car sensors monitoring your health?
I've posted before how the vehicle will eventually be a "nurse" of sorts, especially when it becomes FSD. Here is an undesirable scenario that will happen soon enough...
Grandpa will get in the car to come for Thanksgiving Dinner. With FSD it is not a big deal, even if Grandpa is 80 yrs old and lives 2 hours away. Two hours gives him time for a nap.
His car pulls in your driveway. The extended family goes out to greet him, and he doesn't get out of the car....ut oh? Grandpa died. Happy Thanksgiving.
So no. Right away some degree of health monitoring will be a valuable feature. The vehicle can monitor your health status, and alert the nearest Emergency Room while rerouting the vehicle to the ambulance entrance.
Not allowing a car to "see" you will severely limit the functionality of the device.

With movie processing, his heart rate can be detected from slight color changes in the skin of his face. (Not that it works well, at least not for people with arrhythmia, but the software can be improved).

(And there is enough juice on board for an AED).

 

[Tes La Ferrari]

With movie processing, his heart rate can be detected from slight color changes in the skin of his face. (Not that it works well, at least not for people with arrhythmia, but the software can be improved).

(And there is enough juice on board for an AED).

That explains why they got rid of the Model S sunroof.

Combined with the AED = Ejection Seat Mode.

 

[Tslynk67]

Thing is it is hard to be sure that the data stays under my control as you suggest. At least for training of the NN they have to pull it and might have already been doing it for a while while I was not aware of that. But lets not get into that discussion further, this is very much a matter of personal attitude towards data privacy I think, and discussions will lead nowhere and are OT here anyway.

With all due respect, I think we have little or no control over the data that's held about us. We are know, we are tracked, that's the way it is now. I think resisting it is futile, and I don't really see the problem with it, it's all about trying to sell us stuff as far as I can tell, so I don't care.

The ones who really need to worry about this are criminals and terrorists, the average citizen? Meh!

Again, maybe I'm naïve...

 

[replicant]

So what of the car sensors monitoring your health?
I've posted before how the vehicle will eventually be a "nurse" of sorts, especially when it becomes FSD. Here is an undesirable scenario that will happen soon enough...
Grandpa will get in the car to come for Thanksgiving Dinner. With FSD it is not a big deal, even if Grandpa is 80 yrs old and lives 2 hours away. Two hours gives him time for a nap.
His car pulls in your driveway. The extended family goes out to greet him, and he doesn't get out of the car....ut oh? Grandpa died. Happy Thanksgiving.
So no. Right away some degree of health monitoring will be a valuable feature. The vehicle can monitor your health status, and alert the nearest Emergency Room while rerouting the vehicle to the ambulance entrance.
Not allowing a car to "see" you will severely limit the functionality of the device.

Wearable devices (such as smart watches) will do that better. The car does not need to replicate such features, just to get instructions from wearable (which would be transmitted by the Tesla app). Why do so many people expect Tesla to get into Apple/Googles business all the times? One day, Tesla should collect private data to push invasive ads to passengers' faces. The next, Tesla should make smartphone-like devices to monitor their health. Now, tomorrow, should Tesla launch a social network, a marketplace, an office suite and a crypto service too?

 

[Joe F]

Don't like my car spying on me. If this comes to be, I'll be putting some tape over that camera.

Sia, is that you?

If you take selfie’s, your phone camera probably uses your face and eyes for focus, unless you never use a camera. I suppose video conferencing is out of the question as well?

Oh, and covering the camera would no doubt turn AP off. if this becomes a proven safety feature. The fact that it it would stay within the car should be a non issue for most people.

 

[bkp_duke]

Sia, is that you?

If you take selfie’s, your phone camera probably uses your face and eyes for focus, unless you never use a camera. I suppose video conferencing is out of the question as well?

Oh, and covering the camera would no doubt turn AP off. if this becomes a proven safety feature. The fact that it it would stay within the car should be a non issue for most people.

Who is Sia?

1) I don't take selfies. I actually don't like myself to be photographed much at all. It's a fight for the wife to get family photos each year, and she doesn't post them online.
2) I am not on social media, forums like this aside, as I highly value my privacy
3) I use a rooted android cell phone, I pretty much know just about all data going in and out of that phone
4) I don't video conference. On Zoom, people get to hear my voice, but not see my face (and there is no camera on the computer I use).
5) I use a VPN for pretty much all internet access.

 

[OrthoSurg]

I rated your post about your relationship with your brother Because it makes YOU look much worse than it does him. What is in your heart? Is the effort not worth it to YOU?
YOU've given up although YOU could improve his life by achieving a breakthrough of this impasse. YOU have the truth on your side, and the knowledge but YOU have given up.
If YOU cannot change someone's mind that is so close to YOU, and meant so much to YOU...
Heck, I've changed My Father's mind. He's bought the stock, and is not completely against the idea of owning a Tesla. And the old man drives Bentley's and high end Mercedes to the Yacht club. (His everyday car is a Posh van.).
Now if your Brother is just one big Dick then sure cut him loose. Fortunately I have been able to do that with the rest of my siblings because they poorly planned their last despicable act. Thankfully! (long story, not suited, even vaguely, for this forum, never mind this thread.)

Just spoke with 3 guys I run with who told me to cash out on my Tesla investment because all the Chinese competitors are allegedly going to overtake Tesla according to them. One of them just bought 2 Kona EVs, one for himself and one for his wife. He said « Who would want to pay $15,000 more just for the Tesla name? ». He said that every competitor is going to have a cheaper version of an equivalent EV just like Huawei to iPhone. Then I pointed the $1499 iPhone in his hand and told him to watch battery day to understand. Then the 3 talked about buying these cheap stocks that could double if they managed to get that contract, how they regret selling shopify at $300 when he bought at $150. That same guy recommending me to sell TSLA. I guess some people never learn from their mistakes, ever.

 

[Singuy]

I guess facial monitoring via inside camera is coming to our Teslas after all. Can't wait for nag free driving!

https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1312607693249667073