Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[BobbyKings]

If the Fremont gardeners would unionize, would that qualify?

Asking for a friend

 

[woodisgood]

I believe they'd have to sacrifice their stock options. Plus, at least up until now, the employees don't want to do that.

Nor should they. I’m just wondering if there’s a creative workaround for the creative advantage they’re trying to create for the “competition.”

 

[lafrisbee]

looks like we are going to close in the green for the week...Maxpain went to $610 this morning.

 

[M|S|M MYP]

Also interesting to look at the exact text around the "union" credit.



I wonder if that could include non-union labor organizations. For e.g. Uber/Lyft drivers are represented by a "Guild" that is not a union: These 8 non-union worker organizations are quietly leading the new labor movement

If you order your new Tesla now....you may or may not get the credit due to overwhelming demand and not enough supply...Order now for delivery hopefully by 2026....#demandproblem

 

[woodisgood]

My understanding is that those workers are free to vote to form a union any time they choose. They simply haven't done so -- which is what makes the EV credit stipulation so weird, since Tesla can't actually control whether its workers form a union or not.

Is there some official definition of “labor organization” that states workers in one can’t have stock options?

 

[ZeApelido]

I really meant let's see if we can stay out of the $500's before recovering fully. Because the chart still looks to me like it wants to go down and right.

I'm only going to be concerned if it starts going down and to the left.

 

[printf42]

Also interesting to look at the exact text around the "union" credit.



I wonder if that could include non-union labor organizations. For e.g. Uber/Lyft drivers are represented by a "Guild" that is not a union: These 8 non-union worker organizations are quietly leading the new labor movement

That’s a interesting detail, I am sure Fremont works can be “represented” by a organization called “Fremont commuter’s club” or something, right?

Not saying Tesla should game the rules, but if they are going to game the legislation, Tesla can play along, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ZeApelido]

Tesla really needs to get on with this. The idea that there are so few color options is mad on cars at this price level, or frankly any car. We can literally land rockets on autonomous drones but not support any conceivable color of car? Real car-lovers forget that there are people out there who will buy a nissan leaf because they prefer their red to teslas red. Some people can only describe their car by the color. I know people who if pressed, don't even know the make of their car, but will say 'its a nice silver one'.
It seems like its an easy win in terms of making them more attractive to a wider, less geeky audience, especially as the sale price comes down to attract the more casual EV buyer.

Good points.

You sound a lot like that cliffski guy who left the forum a week ago.

 

[GOVA]

In the South (and probably on the Southside of Chicago) that Seller's "philosophy" is identified as, "A fast nickel beats a slow dime." And is why every good ol boy carried a hun'red dollah bill fold up behind his driver's license. Money talks. Nothing new.

You might want not to use such a wide brush for painting. Simply, M air J or regular Joe Doe might get offended that you include or miss them.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Mid-BB be like "welcome to the suck".

Cheers!

 

[EVDRVN]

That’s a interesting detail, I am sure Fremont works can be “represented” by a organization called “Fremont commuter’s club” or something, right?

Not saying Tesla should game the rules, but if they are going to game the legislation, Tesla can play along, nothing wrong with that.

Better yet-

 

[NicoV]

I believe they'd have to sacrifice their stock options. Plus, at least up until now, the employees don't want to do that.

They can make a new union that groups the people with stock options.

 

[Buckminster]

It'd be a net gain for Tesla so they won't lobby against it

• $0 now for Tesla
• $7500 now for the one or two companies still under 200,000
• net difference $7500

changes to

• $10,000 for Tesla
• $12,500 for GM and Ford
• net difference $2500

that improves the balance for tesla by $5,000 per car.

Add on top, that most people don't have a $12,500 tax liability and for those lower income buyers it's a wash if you can only do $8,402 because your income isn't high enough it'll be $8,402 for both Tesla and non Tesla.

• $8,402 for Tesla
• $8,402 for GM and Ford
• net difference $0

It'd be a very small group of wealthy people buying a GM or Ford EV and getting that last wedge of tax credit.

Important enough for a second post. Tesla is truly the right company at the right place and at the right time. The stars are aligning.

 

[Big Time]

Yeah, it's just tubthumping.

Cheers!

I had that on cassette long ago

 

[Artful Dodger]

Nor should they. I’m just wondering if there’s a creative workaround for the creative advantage they’re trying to create for the “competition.”

The German labor model may be a solution. In Germany, Tesla workers are not unionized, but are represented by a "Worker's Council" (as req'd by Federal law). Paging @avoigt

If the language of the U.S. legislation only requires that member be "a member of, or represented by, a labor organization" then that means Tesla vehicles could qualify for the U.S. Federal tax incentives w/o requiring Tesla factories to unionize.

IMO, this will be much more popular amongst production workers at Giga Texas.

Cheers!

 

[johnm6875]

Who's going to purchase in the 4th Quarter (or the 3rd) if the tax credit only applies to EV's "acquired after December 31, 2021."

 

[Artful Dodger]

Who's going to purchase in the 4th Quarter (or the 3rd) if the tax credit only applies to EV's "acquired after December 31, 2021."

Yeah, that's why the language in the draft bill explicitly says that it applies to any EV purchased after May 24, 2021.

It's the "Tax Credit" => "Tax Rebate" provision that would kick in on Jan 1st, 2022.

Cheers!

 

[StealthP3D]

So the US proposal for EV rebates includes a hard cap at $80,000 MSRP? Wish there was a manufacturer who could restrict the features of their vehicles to meet a certain price point (MSRP), then later unlock those features by selling an OTA update. You know, features such as acceleration, range, seat and steering wheel warmers, etc.

I’d probably both invest in and buy a car from a company like that.

So, you're saying $80K cars could come with the battery software locked to 20 miles of range and then be unlocked for an additional $20K-$40K at a later date to increase the range to 450 miles?

That sounds like a good way to deal with ridiculous government incentives. Personally, I wish all EV incentives would go away and they would make gas/oil pay their fair share of taxes (including a health and clean air tax).

 

[brianhn1]

Who's going to purchase in the 4th Quarter (or the 3rd) if the tax credit only applies to EV's "acquired after December 31, 2021."

Well, that's what I'm curious about too.

1. Tesla is pro-actively increasing the price of their most popular Model 3 and Model Y for the past couple of months. I think people will get wind and order now instead of wait if the price difference ordering now and waiting until next year is significantly less than $10k.

2. Tesla could lower the price for Q3 and Q4 if demand softens a bit and Elon could say, "Price of XXX going up after 12/31/21" and demand will instantly fill up. XXX could be FSD, vehicle MSRP, etc.

 

[ZeApelido]

United Charmin Wipers

Bargaining rights solely to prevent abusive policies like buying Scott toilet paper.

I'm fine with that.