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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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I can't understand why people dislike low prices... My biggest wish is that we can just have one last year with stupidly low prices so i can keep adding to my position while the expected returns are higher than ever. I guess if you are very leveraged with margin or have short term calls that's fair, but for everyone else red days should be celebrated, not detested, like i feel they are for most people today 😁
I won't give you a 'disagree' because I don't generally do that unless someone is obviously trolling, getting unnecessarily political, or truly wrote one of the dumbest things I ever read, and your post doesn't meet any of those criteria.

But instead I'll just say that you remind me of someone that openly roots for his favorite sports team to lose so that they get a better draft pick next year. 👎👎

Where were you every other year with "stupidly low prices"?
 
I'm very interested to know more on this topic. I thought that there was basically no intervention required by humans in the 4680 process at all? I'm talking about cell production, not pack assembly here. Every video I have seen of the 4680 process has shown robots and automation, without a human hand or face in sight.

Regarding optimus: I think the real value here will be unpackaging and unloading components. Its likely that individual car components from 3rd party manufacturers arrive in a variety of vehicles, and wrapped a variety of ways. I think the first we will see of optimus in a tesla factory will be something simple and boring...but fiddly and variable. Specifically grabbing items from the back of trucks, unpackaging them and placing them in packs or on conveyors. There are already primitive robots that can move boxes around, but not bipedal ones that can climb into the back of a semi and go grab a thing.
And you know why? Its the same reason that a person with double amputee arms isn't doing this job. Wrists and hands are difficult: power, tactile sense, and so much more still need to be developed and it's not there- it's not just about the NN. Legs are easy, that's why boston dynamics has those cool videos of things jumping and dancing a decade ago. It's doing something useful with hands.
 

This will help to increase EV demand.
It already works well in London. I predominantly charge via curbside charging. Here's a live view from sentry mode. The bollard next to the lamp post has an inbuilt charger and you can start it via a QR code.
Screenshot_20220630-121810_Tesla.jpg
 
I can't understand why people dislike low prices... My biggest wish is that we can just have one last year with stupidly low prices so i can keep adding to my position while the expected returns are higher than ever. I guess if you are very leveraged with margin or have short term calls that's fair, but for everyone else red days should be celebrated, not detested, like i feel they are for most people today 😁
Lower prices are one thing.
Lowered value of current portfolio is another.
Some have no cash to purchase more, and there is no further adding (unless trading shares for LEAPs). A dip after purchase does them no good, and there is nothing to celebrate (esp when portfolio is already down 40+%).
 
Lower prices are one thing.
Lowered value of current portfolio is another.
Some have no cash to purchase more, and there is no further adding (unless trading shares for LEAPs). A dip after purchase does them no good, and there is nothing to celebrate (esp when portfolio is already down 40+%).

If you are never adding any cash into your portfolio i guess you have either retired or have added a huge one time sum into the marked at some point which you are watching the movements of. I guess there are very few who isn't adding any cash to their portofolio over time (unless they have an enormous amount of money in the marked already).

My portfolio has dropped by almost 40% from the top, and i believe i am basically at zero now with my overall investments (sold a house at the end of 2021 and i've added the cash from that into the marked the last five months). I add about 0,5-0,8% of cash relative to my portfolio size every month. In this scenario i would for my personal sake hope that the marked keeps going down and stays low for as long as possible so i can yield the best returns for the next 3-5 years.
 
If you are never adding any cash into your portfolio i guess you have either retired or have added a huge one time sum into the marked at some point which you are watching the movements of. I guess there are very few who isn't adding any cash to their portofolio over time (unless they have an enormous amount of money in the marked already).

My portfolio has dropped by almost 40% from the top, and i believe i am basically at zero now with my overall investments (sold a house at the end of 2021 and i've added the cash from that into the marked the last five months). I add about 0,5-0,8% of cash relative to my portfolio size every month. In this scenario i would for my personal sake hope that the marked keeps going down and stays low for as long as possible so i can yield the best returns for the next 3-5 years.
Short version is no market is good for everyone and falling markets are bad for most people.

Congrats on your positioning and lack of leverage. Also your ability to dismiss a 40% drop in net worth because of your confidence in the eventual TSLA rebound and your patience to wait for it as you continue to buy.

This may be a capitulation day in the making. If so buckle up. Markets looking for an excuse to sell hard in the economic data and they will probably find it even if it is not really there. OTOH, solid indicators that the PCE is coming in could be met with celebrations.

Enjoy the rollercoaster! All are welcome!
 
I can't understand why people dislike low prices... My biggest wish is that we can just have one last year with stupidly low prices so i can keep adding to my position while the expected returns are higher than ever. I guess if you are very leveraged with margin or have short term calls that's fair, but for everyone else red days should be celebrated, not detested, like i feel they are for most people today 😁
My own take on the above is that it reminds me of my first track coach.

He told me I had potential. “In fact,” he continued, “you’re 100% potential .”

Gee, thanks, Coach.
 
Just FYI, the commodity futures/flows data is pointing to a gigantic energy deficit in Europe this winter.

Europe will probably be substituting oil for NG in generating power, likely elevating prices even with a recession curbing demand.

I expect a very large stagflationary recession in Europe coming up. The ECB hasn’t even gotten out of bed. While it’s likely that inflation is peaking in the US, IMHO, I think it could continue on to 15% or more in Europe, and the euro could fall to ~80¢.

They really are screwed TBH…😕
 
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It's an olive branch, and I hope he takes it. Use it as an opportunity to educate this representative, and hopefully push the end goal for renewable transportation forward.

Elon is smart, hopefully he's learning how to play politics even quicker than he has been to build factories, rockets, etc.

26% of the entire US wind and solar capacity additions in the next ~2 year are in Texas.
 
Short version is no market is good for everyone and falling markets are bad for most people.

Congrats on your positioning and lack of leverage. Also your ability to dismiss a 40% drop in net worth because of your confidence in the eventual TSLA rebound and your patience to wait for it as you continue to buy.

This may be a capitulation day in the making. If so buckle up. Markets looking for an excuse to sell hard in the economic data and they will probably find it even if it is not really there. OTOH, solid indicators that the PCE is coming in could be met with celebrations.

Enjoy the rollercoaster! All are welcome!
Just hodl if the market goes a bit nuts . Tesla is an amazing company and with the advent of li iron phosphate battery in the USA the energy side should/could finally reach potential. Ev demand is through roof and Tesla has reacted by selling premium products with high margin. As the chip situation works out energy should really grow. I think Tesla might have some medium term challenge in production mix and the 4680 developments must be watched. Short 1-2 years it is can’t miss blow earnings out.

Hodl
 
I won't give you a 'disagree' because I don't generally do that unless someone is obviously trolling, getting unnecessarily political, or truly wrote one of the dumbest things I ever read, and your post doesn't meet any of those criteria.

But instead I'll just say that you remind me of someone that openly roots for his favorite sports team to lose so that they get a better draft pick next year. 👎👎

Where were you every other year with "stupidly low prices"?

"But instead I'll just say that you remind me of someone that openly roots for his favorite sports team to lose so that they get a better draft pick next year. "
That's not an apt comparison at all 😅 As long as nothing is fundamentally changing for Tesla my price target will be the same for 2025. That means if tesla doubles now and i have to buy in at twice the price, my returns will be severely diminished the next 3-5 years. I don't hope the company performs badly so they can learn to do better. I hope people don't take advantage of how great they are, so i have better time to do so myself.
 
"But instead I'll just say that you remind me of someone that openly roots for his favorite sports team to lose so that they get a better draft pick next year. "
That's not an apt comparison at all 😅 As long as nothing is fundamentally changing for Tesla my price target will be the same for 2025. That means if tesla doubles now and i have to buy in at twice the price, my returns will be severely diminished the next 3-5 years. I don't hope the company performs badly so they can learn to do better. I hope people don't take advantage of how great they are, so i have better time to do so myself.

I, for one, am prepared to embrace the disappointment of my returns being diminished after a doubling. 😉
 
Yes, humanity really could do this if we wanted to...payback is in 6 years.....6 years!


The study concludes that we do not need miracle technologies to solve these problems. By electrifying all energy sectors; producing electricity from clean, renewable sources; creating heat, cold, and hydrogen from such electricity; storing electricity, heat, cold and the hydrogen; expanding transmission; and shifting the time of some electricity use, we can create safe, cheap and reliable energy everywhere.

The reduction is for five reasons: the efficiency of electric vehicles over combustion vehicles, the efficiency of electric heat pumps for air and water heating over combustion heaters, the efficiency of electrified industry, eliminating energy needed to obtain fossil fuels, as well as some efficiency improvements beyond what is expected.
 
If you are never adding any cash into your portfolio i guess you have either retired or have added a huge one time sum into the marked at some point which you are watching the movements of. I guess there are very few who isn't adding any cash to their portofolio over time (unless they have an enormous amount of money in the marked already).

My portfolio has dropped by almost 40% from the top, and i believe i am basically at zero now with my overall investments (sold a house at the end of 2021 and i've added the cash from that into the marked the last five months). I add about 0,5-0,8% of cash relative to my portfolio size every month. In this scenario i would for my personal sake hope that the marked keeps going down and stays low for as long as possible so i can yield the best returns for the next 3-5 years.
Indeed, people on this forum have widely different life situations. Some are in accumulation phase, some are retired, some could be retired.

For early TSLA investors, just your monthy 0.5-0.8% could be a significant fraction of their total cumulative purchases given it has appreciated 200x since IPO at $17 (pre split, and that's not the all time low). To pull off a 6% yearly contribution could require multiples of their annual income. Now consider TSLA's weekly (or even daily) moves are in excess of your yearly contribution rate.

Stock price is back to where it was in 2021. For some, that was a multimillion rise which evaporated in the last 3 months. Seems hard to expect joy joy feelings about that.
That means if tesla doubles now and i have to buy in at twice the price, my returns will be severely diminished the next 3-5 years.
And those that purchased in the last year are likely down on that trade...
 
Tesla is focused on developing a scalable approach to autonomy

By starting out with trying to make FSD work almost everywhere, Tesla is forcing itself to make a scalable solution. There won't need to be as much "going back to the drawing board" as there might be at Waymo / Cruise etc who barely have gotten things to work outside of one city. Of course a downside of that is going to be performance of the general algorithm will be much worse at first. The data shows most of the disengagements are currently due to mapping issues. Tesla clearly hasn't finished whatever their generalized mapping solution is, but I'm confident they have the diverse data to figure it out. It's hilarious to think people believe Tesla has flatlined progress when even that one issue clearly has a path to improve.
The problem with this is the idea that L2 Anywhere means you have a scalable solution to L4 (everywhere) or L5.
Anyone who has actually developed an application for companies would know that scalable applications are not based on what feature sets you have.
But the architectural design. So yes you can have a L4 system in one city that is DESIGNED to be scalable. If it can't work in one city it won't work anywhere else.

Think about it, if you can't go 1 million miles without a safety disengagement in one city, you won't be able to do that in other cities.
This is also proven by the fact the Tesla FSD Beta has similar categorized safety disengagement stats everywhere.

Meanwhile Waymo has "solved" perception, but nary a peep about global deployment? If it was scalable, they would be touting their scaling prowless, demo in 50 cities and IPO for a trillion dollar valuation. Oh, not happening?
Scalability has just as much to do with infrastructure and logistics as it does with tech.
You need to look at tech scalability alot closer.
There are three techs involved in AV: Perception, Prediction and Planning.

When you say they "solved" perception. You have to remember that there are different road types: suburbs, city, dense urban, highway and rural
and different conditions: good weather (sunny, cloudy), inclement weather (light/moderate rain, light snow, fog), harsh weather (heavy rain, heavy fog, moderate/heavy snow).

Lets use Waymo as an example.
By going driverless in chandler, phoenix, they solved the 3 Ps for suburbs in good weather.
When they went driverless this year in downtown, phoenix and SF, they solved the 3 Ps for city and urban in good weather.

To be able to mass scale (5-10 new cities a year). You need to solve most use case.
That means surburb, city, dense urban, highway, good weather and inclement weather.
That way when you scale, you don't have growing pains trying to map out where you can deploy.
They are almost there, they have highway and inclement weather left.


Tesla is doing the best compromise between what a data scientist and an accountant would do.

If you told the data scientist you had unlimited funds to solve FSD, he/she would load 100,000 cars with cameras / radars, lidars and have them driving around every area of the U.S. or world, collecting the data and working to develop a robust, scalable solution. But that's not cost effective, so no one is doing that. Tesla is chosing to collect more diverse data while competitors are focused on collecting less diverse, but better resolution data.
The problem with this statement is that its factually wrong. You say no one is doing that. But the truth is that alot of companies ARE doing that.

And any good data scientist knows you need a wealth of diverse data in order to make a complicated algorithm generalize well. That's something that Tesla has and competitors absolutely do not.
If this statement was correct and we take Waymo as an example of companies whose tech (perception) doesn't generalize. You do realize that the tens of millions of people (Adults, Teens and children) who visit SF from around the world and from all over the country are in danger of being maimed/killed by being ran over by a driverless Waymo?

The same also applies to the millions of cars from out of state.
 
Stock price is back to where it was in 2021. For some, that was a multimillion rise which evaporated in the last 3 months. Seems hard to expect joy joy feelings about that.

And those that purchased in the last year are likely down on that trade...

True, but hopefully they didn't commit to the trade with a 1-year target for great returns. If they started investing one year ago they most likely don't have huge amounts of money in the marked and should be glad to get the opportunity buy in more at better prices than before. Yes, it's not the same for everyone, but i find it very weird that i can't find anyone who's glad to see the lower prices for their own sake (despite net worth dropping 40% from the top). Again, price target has only gone up for tesla 2025 the last year (due to ASP's increasing faster than cost prices), so both better fundamentals and lower prices should really be something to celebrate at least for the majority of people who's still buying into the marked.