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Hadn’t really thought about this, but where does this put companies like Lambo, Ferrari, and Rimac?

Tesla’s already trouncing BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. How soon before the high end gets tossed too?

Who would pay $1m for a Lambo only to get smoked by a $250k Roadster?

Probably those who have the money to get everything they want, and could just toss out a "measly" $250k of pocket change on a Tesla Roadster 2.0 as well, so I'd imagine these high end companies would be fine for now.

I'd imagine these buyers would likely have more than one vehicle in their garage, each for different purposes like taking the Tesla(s) for daily driving, carrying passengers / cargo or long road trips, and having the Lambo and others for the pure driving pleasures through curvy mountain roads or the occasional lapping days at their local racetracks. At least that's what I would do if I had that kind of pockets, as a car enthusiast. :)

However, even these exotic supercar makers have to move to electrification eventually. Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche have shown their advancements towards this, though admittedly there is still much progress to be made here. In the past year, Lotus said that their newest Emira model would be the last gas-powered vehicle before focusing on a fully EV lineup.
 
Cartographic specialist here breaking silence once again to rap knuckles. Fortunately, class today involves maps, so…..

Before knuckle-rapping begins, a word for all to remember: any time someone shows especially a full-global map, ask yourself if that is the most appropriate projection of a spheroid’s surface onto a flat plane.
For this situation, in order not to be mischievous, it must be an equal-area projection; the one shown most decidedly is not. Rather, it shows off the desired focus in the best possible light. Below please find my choice; unfortunately, I am not going to place the circle on it but leave it to each of you to do so - use as circumference markers the west boundary of Pakistan, the northern boundary of Hokkaido, and the southern extremities of Indonesia (and on edit: it is a circle of radius 4100km, centered on Guiyou, Guizhang Prov.).
You will note that this region covers a far greater fraction of the earth’s land surface than appeared to have been the case in the original version.

Link here: http://www.equal-earth.com/Equal-Earth-Map-150E.jpg

Final grade: a gentleman’s C-.
Retired navigator give this an A.
 
At least the Rimac can give a four door family sedan some good competition. :cool:
I'd caution against talking sugar about Rimac. What Rimac has done and how they have develped is nothing short of remarkable.

This is truly an incredible story of Mate self modifying BMW to EV and growing into what they are now. It is one great miracle that they have worked for very hard.

Also, we all know that the Roadster will be fast, but Nevera might not be their last word.

Finally, they are fine with the segment they cover. 2M a pop is a different kind of manufacturing and approach to technology.

 
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Hadn’t really thought about this, but where does this put companies like Lambo, Ferrari, and Rimac?

Tesla’s already trouncing BMW, Mercedes, and Audi. How soon before the high end gets tossed too?

Who would pay $1m for a Lambo only to get smoked by a $250k Roadster?
The same reasons people (back in the mid to late 20th century) would pay extra for a Coupé de Ville versus a Caprice Classic…

Or to lift something from Mad Magazine’s Fiddler on the Roof parody (Antenna on the Roof), where even the dog house has status symbols inside:

B85EB593-5AD0-4C20-93EF-0C868CD7DF83.jpeg


;)
 
Rimac is gonna be like !@#$% when the roadster comes out. You could buy 10 Roadsters to 1 Nevera, lol. Musk is like keep my beer warm bro.

Who would even consider buying a new* Ferrari for twice the price of a Roadster, and half the performance? And 10x the cost per mile? Excluding maintenance! And what if (God forbid), yer teenager finds the car keys?!

1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder.jpg


*Okay, that 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder was pretty cool. But that was WAY BACK in 1986, Bueller!! That's Pre-LithiumIon Daze! Cool kids would pick the Roadster today. ;)

Cheers!
 
I'd caution against talking sugar about Rimac. What Rimac has done and how they have develped is nothing short of remarkable.

This is truly an incredible story of Mate self modifying BMW to EV and growing into what they are now. It is one great miracle that they have worked for very hard.

Also, we all know that the Roadster will be fast, but Nevera might not be their last word.

Finally, they are fine with the segment they cover. 2M a pop is a different kind of manufacturing and approach to technology.

There are also a few fairly good Chinese Supercars coming soon, including one from BYD,

Rimac and the Roadster might stake out the high end, admittedly at difference price points., The Chinese options perhaps not as good but a bit cheaper. Lots of choice for the customer, no reason at all to buy ICE.

Dig a bit deeper, and those ICE Supercars and Hypercars need regular servicing, and are expensive to keep on the road.

EVs achieving a clear smackdown in this segment is good for all EV sales.
 
Roadster deliveries in 2023?

Given the lack of updates about status of Roadster deliveries and also the fact that I could be easily be earning 3.5% on my deposit money, I just called to ask for my deposit back. Took 20 minutes to get someone on the line; after taking my info and then having some muffled conversations with people in the background, the person came back and said "I'm being told that Elon has said we will deliver these in Q2 or Q3 of this year". I asked her to verify that she meant 2023. More muffled convo in background, and then she says "yes, in 2023".

I'm not sure how confident to be with this info, but I told her I would hold off on cancelling for a few months and see where this goes.

Personally I haven't seen anything on Twitter or elsewhere to support this; seems like most people were thinking 2024 for Roadster deliveries to start

Roadster deliveries in 2023?

Given the lack of updates about status of Roadster deliveries and also the fact that I could be easily be earning 3.5% on my deposit money, I just called to ask for my deposit back. Took 20 minutes to get someone on the line; after taking my info and then having some muffled conversations with people in the background, the person came back and said "I'm being told that Elon has said we will deliver these in Q2 or Q3 of this year". I asked her to verify that she meant 2023. More muffled convo in background, and then she says "yes, in 2023".

I'm not sure how confident to be with this info, but I told her I would hold off on cancelling for a few months and see where this goes.

Personally I haven't seen anything on Twitter or elsewhere to support this; seems like most people were thinking 2024 for Roadster deliveries to start.
I'd keep that reservation alive. Tesla can no longer tease new models with long lead times - that would crush the sales pipeline. They need to drop the new cars and the already-revealed cars quickly, almost instantly. Can it happen? Elon is walking around like he doesn't have a care in the world - and I think this is the reason - CT / Semi / 25K car / Roadster all in one year? Sounds crazy - but I think it is possible.
 
The same reasons people (back in the mid to late 20th century) would pay extra for a Coupé de Ville versus a Caprice Classic…

Or to lift something from Mad Magazine’s Fiddler on the Roof parody (Antenna on the Roof), where even the dog house has status symbols inside:

View attachment 894714

;)
I could swear TVya has a framed image of Elon there.
 

Matt Smith from Good Soil Investment gives very informative interview on Megapacks, battery storage market, and how American electric utility companies make these decisions from the inside. I learned a lot from this video and I think it's worth the time for a listen. Matt formerly worked on renewable energy project finance and later operations for a utility in the US.

Key Takeaways
  • Something around 50% Megapack margins in US market is plausible with current prices close to $500/kWh, but only after the factory is ramped and backlog of lower-price orders is burned down
  • Cost-plus nature of regulated utility monopolies makes many buyers not price sensitive and they’re judging battery project on other metrics like meeting state-mandated renewable energy mix requirements, power quality, and blackout frequency
  • Lots of opportunity for Tesla to make money on services and software over life of battery
  • IRA clean energy credits, especially the 30% investment tax credit being extended to batteries, are huge for margins and demand and to Matt’s knowledge are uniquely big incentives globally
  • Utility software competence is low. Lots of decisions that could be automated still made with phone calls. However, industry also has huge volume of useful data. Ripe opportunity for good machine learning (Autobidder) to improve economics, especially for battery projects.
 
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Matt Smith from Good Soil Investment gives very informative interview on Megapacks, battery storage market, and how American electric utility companies make these decisions from the inside. I learned a lot from this video. Matt formerly worked on renewable energy project finance and later operations for a utility in the US.

Key Takeaways
  • Something around 50% Megapack margins in US market is plausible with current prices close to $500/kWh, but only after the factory is ramped and backlog of lower-price orders is burned down
  • Cost-plus nature of regulated utility monopolies makes many buyers not price sensitive and they’re judging battery project on other metrics like meeting state-mandated renewable energy mix requirements, power quality, and blackout frequency
  • Lots of opportunity for Tesla to make money on services and software over life of battery
  • IRA clean energy credits, especially the 30% investment tax credit being extended to batteries, are huge for margins and demand and to Matt’s knowledge are uniquely big incentives globally
  • Utility software competence is low. Lots of decisions that could be automated still made with phone calls. However, industry also has huge volume of useful data. Ripe opportunity for good machine learning (Autobidder) to improve economics, especially for battery projects.
It should be noted that zerosumgame33 strongly disliked their way of restating what he stated. See his twitter for the blowup afterwards. To hear his original version he starts around 45min in here:
 
Dillon from CleanerWatt has a good rundown on Megapacks as well. He likes the 45% margin number. Seems like a lot of people circling in at much higher margins than current auto margins. Dillon also has a nice projection of where he thinks Megapack growth is this year.

He also has his projections for growth and pins this year’s production at about 9 GWh. A bit lower than some other estimates, but still puts it around the ~10 GWh range which several of us here have been talking about.

1673489503170.png


Overall quite positive and a well put together video.

 
It should be noted that zerosumgame33 strongly disliked their way of restating what he stated. See his twitter for the blowup afterwards. To hear his original version he starts around 45min in here:
At some point in the day yesterday zerosumgame33 said they were going to quit Twitter entirely. Good to see they are still around.
 
  • Funny
Reactions: ShareLofty
Wouldn't it be dreamier to have a bigger ramp of Model Y? It seems that it has not yet saturated the market.

I think it's the right time to add another model in an entirely new segment (Cybertruck) and for the Semi to jumpstart heavy trucking.

What I see is that the Model Y has a huge potential market, perhaps 10X the current market, but not at current ASP's. The Model Y has the highest margins of any current Tesla model so there is already plenty of room to expand the market by lowering prices, that's without any future cost savings due to manufacturing and volume efficiencies. And, as we saw in China very recently, demand for cars is highly sensitive to relatively small changes in price. So, Model Y production and sales can continue to grow profitably for years, limited only by availability of parts, raw materials, manufacturing space and people. The lower the price, the larger the market. The Model 3, with the Highland update, will likely fall into this same category, although at about half the total volumes.

On the other hand, the Cybertruck has over 2 million reservations (which will almost certainly grow larger even as 20%-50% of early reservations cancel) and potentially even higher margins. Since we don't have any good data of how much it's going to cost to build, or what the release prices will be, this is still unproven. But Munro seems to think the unique construction is brilliant, not only because it will make for a better truck, but also that it will have huge savings in the cost to build for reasons we have previously discussed in depth. It must be kept in mind that Munro has not priced out the various prices and raw materials, he's just making a seat-of-the-pants estimation.

Elon and team have costed out the manufacture and think it's a go. I can see no indication they are doing this just to fulfill expectations, Elon has talked the truck up numerous times as potentially "one of our best products ever". Elon has added to expectations by adding four-wheel steering and a four-motor 350-mile version which will undoubtably have all kinds of tricks up its sleeve due to its ability to control every wheel electronically and independently, including steering angles front/back. I think it likely that Tesla will release the 4-motor version first with a higher price than the announced price of the tri-motor version of $69,900 (even with a smaller battery back). I think the 500-mile version will be released in mid/late 2024.

If the 4-motor version is the release version, that means that Cybertruck could prove to be profitable very early in its ramp and I think demand for the initial release will be so high that some people will be flipping them for $10-$20K profits, even if the release price is $89K without any options like FSD or off-road wheels. After selling 50 or 80 thousand 4-wheel models, probably by early 2024, production will transition to a mix including the most popular version, probably a 2-motor 4WD truck at a reasonably affordable price point that will allow sales volumes to grow with production for years to come with steadily increasing margins in the first couple of years.

If the economics of making the truck are as favorable as I'm hoping, and batteries are available at reasonable prices, I can see Tesla easily getting to 1 million Cybertrucks per year with higher margins than Model Y. Best of all, they will be displacing ICE trucks and large SUV's getting 15-22 mpg!

I think the new, smaller compact Tesla will be released without a lot of advance warning because Tesla knows demand will be off-the-charts (so they don't need to build any more anticipation than they already have). Margins will be lower than Model Y and Cybertruck margins but potential sales very high. All of this is dependent upon battery supply, so keep your eyes on 4680 production increases/progress! People worried about future demand for Tesla vehicles are just displaying their ignorance of what's happening in the automotive markets globally. It really is all about the batteries. Hopefully we get a bullish battery update during Q4 earnings call.