Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[bkp_duke]

You must have missed the part about the Tesla Charging Network being spun off to existing shareholders, not "sold off" to others who don't have the steadfast commitment to service and quality that anything-Tesla possesses. My idea (and it's just an idea) would involve the continued management of the system, as is. It would just be a separate entity within the Tesla umbrella. Honestly, I know you've been around a long time, like myself, but I'm surprised that you did not recognize that I did not, in any way, suggest that the charging network be sold off for a profit and wash our hands of it. Yes, that would be a "terrible idea". Spinning off ownership to shareholders and installing excellent Tesla executives to run the new Company is a vastly different story. Perhaps you are just responding to the cherry-picked sentence JRP3 quoted above. At any rate, I hope I've answered you question.

WHY!?!?!?!?!?

WHY add the UNNEEDED complexity of a spin-off if you are going to have the same group, the same people, managing and running it.

There is ZERO benefit to this. None to customers, none to Tesla. And given that all the Supercharger news is a large driver of shareprice appreciation right now, none to shareholders. No benefit to this. None, zilch.

Tesla is CASH RICH, they don't need something like this to generate revenue for the main company, which MIGHT be the ONLY reasonable case it would be considered.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

I’ve got some June 2024 leaps that are still 30% down. Im hanging on for dear life.

The wild thing is that there could be a FSD update practically anytime between now and those June 2024 LEAPS would could make them insanely valuable. Makes holding LEAPS that are currently OTM such a hard decision.

If and a big IF that special FSD update comes out within the next year and it shows up in earnings as SAAS, then I definitely feel it adds another 500-800 billion onto the market cap in a matter of weeks if not days.

Moments like this are going to be so exciting for the next year

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671214852281446400

 

[2daMoon]

You must have missed the part about the Tesla Charging Network being spun off to existing shareholders, not "sold off" to others who don't have the steadfast commitment to service and quality that anything-Tesla possesses. My idea (and it's just an idea) would involve the continued management of the system, as is. It would just be a separate entity within the Tesla umbrella. Honestly, I know you've been around a long time, like myself, but I'm surprised that you did not recognize that I did not, in any way, suggest that the charging network be sold off for a profit and wash our hands of it. Yes, that would be a "terrible idea". Spinning off ownership to shareholders and installing excellent Tesla executives to run the new Company is a vastly different story. Perhaps you are just responding to the cherry-picked sentence JRP3 quoted above. At any rate, I hope I've answered you question.

Even with this clarification, it is a stretch to see any advantage to spinning it off. Currently, the SC network is purposefully running at low profits, as this helps with the mission, and it may or may not even be fully funding all of its own expansion.

Granted, I like the idea of getting more solar and batteries involved in offsetting fossil fuel energy generation. But, that is going to happen anyway and it will be happening within Tesla's Energy operations. The Energy side likely would never be spun off along with the charging network as you have offered, would it?

If you envision some aspect of the idea of a spin-off that would be significantly advantageous for stockholders, over simply leaving things as they are, please elaborate upon that.

 

[bkp_duke]

Sandy is very happy with the Rivian announcement. LoL

 

[SOULPEDL]

I’ve got some June 2024 leaps that are still 30% down. Im hanging on for dear life.

Ya should-a just sold them earlier like I did. /s

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

If anyone here bought far OTM LEAPS 3-6 months ago, I sure hope you are in the process of swapping those LEAPS for much lower strike priced LEAPS or are swapping them back to shares.

Yes we're still down 34% from the ATH....but there's a lot of expectations set for Q2 P/D and Q2 earnings at this point. I don't see Q2 earnings being bad, but I also don't see a Nvidia type blowout of earnings to support the stock after a 100% rally. P/D numbers would have to come in very big for me to think there won't be a decent selloff of anywhere from 15-25%

Gonna be interesting to see the "Golden Cross" algorithm bots vs the "sell the news" crowd.

Images still shadow banned/broken? There is supposed to be a picture of the 50 day moving average and the 200 day moving average on a stock chart show above.

 

[Blue horseshoe]

Even with this clarification, it is a stretch to see any advantage to spinning it off. Currently, the SC network is purposefully running at low profits, as this helps with the mission, and it may or may not even be fully funding all of its own expansion.

Granted, I like the idea of getting more solar and batteries involved in offsetting fossil fuel energy generation. But, that is going to happen anyway and it will be happening within Tesla's Energy operations. The Energy side likely would never be spun off along with the charging network as you have offered, would it?

If you envision some aspect of the idea of a spin-off that would be significantly advantageous for stockholders, over simply leaving things as they are, please elaborate upon that.

Not in favor of spinoffs anytime, but two of the effects that could be positive is that certain spinoff would be enticing to new investors which could bring in new whales. The second is that it could break up the outsized options trading on tsla and possibly reduce volatility. Though I think a better option is to stop the stock splits and allow the price per share to go up to reduce the amount of option trading that goes on with tsla.

 

[GOVA]

The mentioned 'spinoff' of charging business by Tesla - I see that more like Alphabet-Google relationship eventually.

Tesla will control everything. No need to panic that somebody else will just get/buy it.

 

[winfield100]

You must have missed the part about the Tesla Charging Network being spun off to existing shareholders, not "sold off" to others who don't have the steadfast commitment to service and quality that anything-Tesla possesses. My idea (and it's just an idea) would involve the continued management of the system, as is. It would just be a separate entity within the Tesla umbrella. Honestly, I know you've been around a long time, like myself, but I'm surprised that you did not recognize that I did not, in any way, suggest that the charging network be sold off for a profit and wash our hands of it. Yes, that would be a "terrible idea". Spinning off ownership to shareholders and installing excellent Tesla executives to run the new Company is a vastly different story. Perhaps you are just responding to the cherry-picked sentence JRP3 quoted above. At any rate, I hope I've answered you question.

NO I'm not
You are selling it off/spinning it off, for no reason other than to sell/spin it off and allow MORE manipulation .
(and yeah, i've been in the markets over 40 years and have seen a few shenninagans)

(a guy in our investment club, last time we saw him had nekkid shorted AAPL, holding overnight and it popped UP)(before most of the splits)

As many of us are acutely aware, there is the real problem of virtual shares, hypothecated and rehypothicated endlessly due the 15 times cursed "Madoff rule exception" that allows shorts and MM's etc etc to persue their rapacity of extraction and what the share price should be without those shenannigans

Your "idea" allows an additional venue for that blatant manipulation

I think it should be the opposite

shrink the market, restrict TSLA trading to many fewer times per month, or year,
deliver the actual shares prior to trades, none of these "virtual shares"

clean the house of the ghod forsaken shorts, deliver the hypothecated shares

 

[winfield100]

WHY!?!?!?!?!?

WHY add the UNNEEDED complexity of a spin-off if you are going to have the same group, the same people, managing and running it.

There is ZERO benefit to this. None to customers, none to Tesla. And given that all the Supercharger news is a large driver of shareprice appreciation right now, none to shareholders. No benefit to this. None, zilch.

Tesla is CASH RICH, they don't need something like this to generate revenue for the main company, which MIGHT be the ONLY reasonable case it would be considered.

@bkp_duke
There is benefit to the manipulators whom have another venue to exploit

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Gonna be interesting to see the "Golden Cross" algorithm bots vs the "sell the news" crowd.

Images still shadow banned?

I think there's gonna be a hell of a lot of shenanigans around the "Golden Cross" moment. Lots of head fakes but unless Tesla screws it up themselves, I think the stock goes higher after that event.

 

[Hiline]

The wild thing is that there could be a FSD update practically anytime between now and those June 2024 LEAPS would could make them insanely valuable. Makes holding LEAPS that are currently OTM such a hard decision.

If and a big IF that special FSD update comes out within the next year and it shows up in earnings as SAAS, then I definitely feel it adds another 500-800 billion onto the market cap in a matter of weeks if not days.

Moments like this are going to be so exciting for the next year

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671214852281446400

I'm right there with you. Most people disagreed, but I thought FSD would be complete in 2-3 years. Any kind of stock selling I'd only do till the end of this year. Starting Q1 2024, I don't want to miss out on a big FSD announcement. It'd be Baby, buy buy buy for me at that point.

 

[wipster]

Thought it was just me... couldn't paste an image, worked earlier today.

I haven't been able to post .png's for a while, maybe that's the issue?

 

[2daMoon]

It seemed worth saying, nom, nom, nom.

Boy howdy, that was some delicious 'mandatory morning dip' today. Green, green guacamole, my favorite! Yummy!

Glad everyone brought chips as the dip bowl is still overflowing. If there are any leftovers, maybe they will keep until tomorrow.

 

[Nocturnal]

It will be interesting to see what they wind up building there.

Musk to brief Modi on Tesla's India investment plans in U.S. meeting-source

Tesla chief executive Elon Musk will directly brief Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on plans to set up a manufacturing base there, a source with direct knowledge said.

www.reuters.com

 

[Skryll]

[...]

WHY add the UNNEEDED complexity of a spin-off if you are going to have the same group, the same people, managing and running it.

There is ZERO benefit to this.

Agreed. Worst case it would turn into a profit center not aligned with the core mission to enable accelerated transition to EV across the industry.

Let tesla safeguard the quality and cost efficiency of the deployments.

 

[Olle]

Maybe Tesla will spin off its charging Network into a separate company and give tesla shareholders stock in the new company, any thoughts?

Here are my thoughts as a shareholder: Five benefits of spinning off a company in general and Tesla's particular situation in brackets ():

1. Focus: After a spin-off, both the parent company and the spun-off entity can concentrate more closely on their core operations. This enhanced focus can lead to improved operational efficiency. This applies more to stale companies that have a lot of uncontrollable culture, e.g Ford's Model E division was probably a good move. (Tesla's leadership is still largely in control of the organization so I don't think this applies. They would also lose the benefits of shared resources and synergies that existed when they were a single organization. They might face increased costs in areas like purchasing, operations, administration, loss of economies of scale)
2. Value realization: Sometimes, a division might be undervalued as part of a larger entity due to being overshadowed by the parent company's primary operations. By spinning it off an increased total market value for the parent and the new entity combined. (Doesn't seem to apply in this case. If the last days' stock run is resulting from the NACS announcements, TSLA has already gained more from the SC network than it would be worth in its own. The spin off process can also lead to immediate costs, such as those related to restructuring, legal work, and potential tax implications.)
3. Access to capital: You may need capital for one division without wishing to dilute another that you want more control over (I don't think they need more capital for one or the other right now)
4. Risk isolation: If a particular division has a different risk profile compared to the rest of the company, spinning it off can isolate this risk. (While spinning off can isolate risks, it may also expose the spun-off entity to increased risk if it was previously relying on the parent company for support or protection. Also, the process of separation might bring to light undisclosed liabilities or hidden risks.)
5. Compliance with Antitrust Laws: If a company has grown so large or dominant in its market that it's coming under scrutiny for potentially anti-competitive behavior, such as gouging non Tesla customers on fees, it might choose to spin off a division as a proactive measure, to avoid punishments and before it is forced to separate anyway. (I would imagine that Tesla wouldn't be allowed to keep their chargers branded in this case. Huge loss. I really hope that the government refrains from antitrust action on this)

On balance, I believe that it would be a huge mistake to spin off the SC network.


link with Tesla's official listed benefits from doing the opposite of a spinoff:

• "Strategic rationale:
  • The acquisition of SolarCity will create the world’s only integrated sustainable energy company, from energy generation to storage to transportation.
  • Just as Tesla has demonstrated the superiority of electric vehicles, the solar roof and Powerwall 2 will transform energy generation and storage."

I also remember Elon saying something along the lines of how operationally wasteful and bureaucratic it is to buy and sell components such as batteries between the two companies.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Man, this is the highest I've been in a while! 420.69 now on my radar.
Go Tesla!

 

[UncaNed]

I’ve got some June 2024 leaps that are still 30% down. Im hanging on for dear life.

Isn't that the opposite of what you should do? Why not cash the June 2024's out now, while they're less-bad than a few months ago, then buy December 2025's so that you've got 18 more months of recovery time and way less Theta decay? [Edit: In all probability, those last 18 months will include some amazing growth periods for TSLA. I think we're all expecting good things to happen between June 2024 and December 2025 those later-expiring options will then include, not that I let my options get that stale before rolling into later expirations.]

Hop off that disintegrating, damaged elevator you're riding, and onto a newer one that's in better condition and ride it up instead for a better shot at dear life?

That said, this is not advice, and my greatest judgment flaw in LEAPS has been not selling when I should have, so YMMV.

[Edits- sure, the December 2025's will cost you more, perhaps you'll end up with fewer contracts, but the reason for that is they're worth more, so IMHO, I don't really see the real loss in the transaction in the long run.

Reminder Don't buy options with money you can't afford to lose. I'm still hanging onto my HODLING share stache.]

 

[Knightshade]

I think there's gonna be a hell of a lot of shenanigans around the "Golden Cross" moment. Lots of head fakes but unless Tesla screws it up themselves, I think the stock goes higher after that event.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671173415531601920