Factories are opening up again in the US except for California.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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Reductionist
Member
I disagree with this. As others have pointed out, Alameda doesn't even have a clear plan for reopening, and what they do have has ridiculous conditions attached to it. This lockdown may haunt Tesla for months to come in the worst case.
Hanlons razor: you don't need malice for insane outcomes, only incompetence. What I heard yesterday on Alameda's update call does not inspire confidence in that regard.
The Alameda county health officials confirmed on yesterdays call that only 5-10% of Alameda's hospital capacity is taken up by COVID patients. That's the core of the issue: Alameda county is one of the less affected counties, but has among the most restrictive policies. They already are erring on the side of caution massively.
If Newsom had any say in the matter, Tesla would already be operating again. This is a county level issue, Newsoms opinion is basically irrelevant, unless he wants to revoke the right of the counties to be more restrictive than the state, which I don't see happening.
Many of the doctors I've seen couldn't figure out (or rather honestly didn't care) how insurance works for the procedures that they run every day (often putting their patients at big financial risk). Now they are running the country.
I grew up in TX (Dallas) and now live in Southern CA .... I could give you about 30 more "main disadvantages" ....
I understand leverage and negotiation. I also understand that when you are the CEO of a Billion dollar company you need to look at the situation and see all the angles and respond with thoughtfulness, I don't think Elon did. He comes off as a petulant child who wants to take his ball and go home. How about all of those workers at that plant that have worked their asses off meeting impossible deadlines for Elon? Are they all supposed to pick up and move wherever he wants to put his factory? Does he owe them nothing??
It's childish behavior that is not fitting of a CEO .... I stand by it and I don't care how many on this board disagree with me. I'm not in this for the short term ... I'm long and in addition I support the people who have brought tesla to this point and it's NOT just Elon. He would do well to remember that.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
As someone who might move at some point - I worry about kids education. Are they still against teaching evolution ? How is racism compared to west coast ?
The most important thing about west coast I think is the mobility. Its so easy to switch companies - there are so many good companies to work for.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it is ultimately not an either/or proposition between TN and TX with both states being tax friendly while offering a diversity of climate and workforce. For instance, Tennessee has a large labor pool of skilled workers with GM, Nissan and Volkswagen having a huge presence in the state and Toyota not far away in northern Alabama.
Krugerrand
Meow
Social distancing is not equal to lockdown. So which is it?
In Alameda County I’m seeing less lockdown happening but social distancing generally being adhered to.
At the Pleasanton market this morning - about 40% of the usual vendors were there so spreading them out was no issue. I got there just as the senior’s hour was ending so still light foot traffic.
About 80% of people were wearing masks. Definitely some social distancing going on, but not strictly-otherwise I must assume people don’t actually know what 6’ means.
Outside the popular coffee shop, about 30 people on the small patio area, all with masks on, but only 3-4’ apart.
Line up outside Home Depot this morning was longish for such an early hour, everyone with a mask on, and as you’d expect these people actually understood how much is 6’ apart.
Regardless what the survey says; people are done. They want to get back to living their lives and are willing to take the risk.
Heck, I’m done and it never even caused me to have to change my daily routine.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If you thought doctors are too dumb to run the country, wait till you meet our politicians.
When the county fail to give musk a definite time line, then yeah what is he suppose to do? Pick up and leave or watch his company burn to the ground? Those people who worked their ass off at least still have a company to go to vs being laid off.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
The question was about social distancing in place - which includes business closures etc.
More importantly - I was answering a claim that people' opinion will move the county - with zero facts to backup that assertion. Infact whatever polls we have show the opposite.
In general in such circumstances, companies lobby behind the scene - instead of tweeting. But then, Musk has never done things like others....
This argument seems weak. CA is a big state, and the cost of transporting cars from Fremont to LA seems unlikely to be "very considerably" less than from Nevada to LA, especially when Tesla Semis are doing it. Also, making cars at GF1 would eliminate the cost of transporting battery packs from GF1 to Fremont. Also, Tesla uses suppliers from all over the country and world, so I doubt a huge difference in transport time or cost there.
Agreed. That's your strongest argument. With Tesla's rate of innovation, and focus on innovating production processes, engineers probably need to be near the factory floor.
feigen66
Member
Media is too focusing on Tesla but missing the big picture.
The big picture is that the hospital utilization is so low that we are laying off doctors and nurses while county health officers kept mumming their "plans".
I will say again, when your county needs to deliver 2.5M of free meals per week with growth rate of 41% week after week, that is not okay.
This is man-made faime and poverty with no fault on tax payers part.
The health officers still getting their pay check and they are making > $100K, that puts them top 10% of earners.
People are making fun of Elon that he is billionaires so he does not feel pain for his workers, while there health officers kept getting photo-op and media interview praising their "work". So illusional.
I disagreed with you because the tweets from Elon regarding lawsuit are perfectly logical and sane. They do not sound crazy or petulant child. If anything, they are clear concise and express exactly his reasons and actions.
Reductionist
Member
I believe his drastic wording is primarily there to put pressure on the county, in hope that they won't dare to call the bluff. If they get 'scared straight', then all of this is a moot point anyway, and Tesla simply doesn't expand production in Fremont further, which they wouldn't have done regardless.
If they don't allow Tesla to reopen, then the wording is ambiguous enough, that Tesla again has the option of either just stopping expansion at Fremont, or move some part (or all) of production to Texas/Nevada. I think this is their last resort though, and if Alameda is reasonable, I don't expect this to happen in the near to medium future.
Many of those same companies have quite a few offices/factories in Texas, mostly in Austin.
Education is local in Texas. That is, each independent ISD sets what's taught (even though some of the politicians would like every ISD to teach superstition). Austin is mainly made up of non-natives because of all the tech jobs that have opened up over the past couple of decades, so that shouldn't be an issue. (Note: No children so I don't pay that much attention to this issue other than to vote against it whenever I get a chance.)
Racists are everywhere, not just Texas, mostly they are in in the smaller towns (at least in Texas that's the case). There's not a big issue in the larger cities (other than the usual--police target minorities).
Ameliorate
Member
This just in, polls show 75% of people watch "the news" and don't do proper research, 10% want freedom and probably also didn't do any research
Please don't take offense to this @EVNow i'm mocking the poll and if anything, the public is in general uninformed. If I've learned anything over the past 5 months it's that the public is at best 3 weeks behind the actual news. Coming from a guy who hedged his investments and went all in 1 day before the bottom (luck), bought tp and groceries before the rush, only 3 weeks worth, had no problem shopping again after the initial panic. wore masks weeks before anyone else and stopped being concerned about a month or so ago. You don't have to predict the future when you can watch it play out in other countries further ahead on the covid timeline.....
To be honest it was a train wreck watching the US/Canada for example "discover" the efficacy of many things seemingly proven in China/South Korea months prior, like plasma and chloroquine. Because I felt earlier focus on some of these techniques could have saved many lives and it was no secret.
done
"Please consider coordinating a safe reopening of services, especially those deemed "essential" by the federal government. I understand Tesla as an example has been on the forefront of this virus having put in place protective measures in Shanghai and navigated the situation there perfectly. They were shut down for 1.5 weeks to implement their safety strategy and have been operating at full capacity for the past 3 months without a hitch. I believe we should communicate with companies that have had such success in safe operations while preventing the spread of covid19, in an effort to reopen the economy where possible (excluding mass sporting events and the like for now).
There is a large toll to keeping everybody locked up which I strongly believe with the data we currently have on covid, that the current restrictions you are imposing are more harmful than good. People need jobs, a sense of purpose, things to do. I hope you will consider talking to Tesla and glean from them how they have been able to safely reopen. This is already a fact and we do not need more data to show that they are safely operating in Shanghai, an arguably much more densely populated area. I hope you will look into easing some of your restrictions."
Feel free to copy
Please don't take offense to this @EVNow i'm mocking the poll and if anything, the public is in general uninformed. If I've learned anything over the past 5 months it's that the public is at best 3 weeks behind the actual news. Coming from a guy who hedged his investments and went all in 1 day before the bottom (luck), bought tp and groceries before the rush, only 3 weeks worth, had no problem shopping again after the initial panic. wore masks weeks before anyone else and stopped being concerned about a month or so ago. You don't have to predict the future when you can watch it play out in other countries further ahead on the covid timeline.....
To be honest it was a train wreck watching the US/Canada for example "discover" the efficacy of many things seemingly proven in China/South Korea months prior, like plasma and chloroquine. Because I felt earlier focus on some of these techniques could have saved many lives and it was no secret.
done
"Please consider coordinating a safe reopening of services, especially those deemed "essential" by the federal government. I understand Tesla as an example has been on the forefront of this virus having put in place protective measures in Shanghai and navigated the situation there perfectly. They were shut down for 1.5 weeks to implement their safety strategy and have been operating at full capacity for the past 3 months without a hitch. I believe we should communicate with companies that have had such success in safe operations while preventing the spread of covid19, in an effort to reopen the economy where possible (excluding mass sporting events and the like for now).
There is a large toll to keeping everybody locked up which I strongly believe with the data we currently have on covid, that the current restrictions you are imposing are more harmful than good. People need jobs, a sense of purpose, things to do. I hope you will consider talking to Tesla and glean from them how they have been able to safely reopen. This is already a fact and we do not need more data to show that they are safely operating in Shanghai, an arguably much more densely populated area. I hope you will look into easing some of your restrictions."
Feel free to copy
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
That part of the argument is weak, but it's not an insignificant consideration. It's one factor of many including the obvious one I didn't mention - the cost and time to move all that heavy equipment and acquire a new place that was suitable. And the cost of trying to liquidate the rather large factory at Fremont. None of this is impossible and, if push comes to a shove, they would eventually do it. My point was it's not happening anytime soon and without better reasons than we have seen to date. It's an option of last resort, not a natural move like some here are implying.
Yes, that is a big consideration too.
Sorry, but I don’t think this is a bluff. Read the wording - he is stating that HQ will move. Frankly, Elon doesn’t bluff and once pushed beyond his limits, does not back down. CA has lost this war already.
If they don’t open it
There is no factory for the workers to work
Can’t keep it shuttered forever without a viable plan to how and when to open
County is just winging it.
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