This is a prototype that's been the wringer that is on display. But, I wholeheartedly agree about the importance of good fit and "finish". Guarantee the production Cybertruck will not be delivered like this to customers at the delivery center.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
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This is a prototype that's been the wringer that is on display. But, I wholeheartedly agree about the importance of good fit and "finish". Guarantee the production Cybertruck will not be delivered like this to customers at the delivery center.
Sign of the times: an oil refiner in the port of Antwerp stops oil refinement and will mothball the installations: Einde dreigt voor Antwerpse olieraffinaderij Gunvor
Embedded Marketing/Product Placement is NOT advertising. Elon has never AFAIK, said he does not believe in brand marketing. He most definitely does not wish to conduct advertising. He is far too well informed to confuse Brand Management with Advertising. Tesla Product Placement is, I agree, the stuff others can only dream of. From Stephen Colbert and Jay Leno to Aviation Week, the NFL and the Peterson Museum Tesla gets widespread poplar promotion and near-adulation. Note that almost all of that is actually Tesla owner word of mouth. SpaceX. of course, is different, but incredibly powerful with a huge technological achievement as a backstop.
We all need to be very careful with words. This is NOT advertising. Advertising is, by definition, paid promotion of a product. It can be highly targeted and very direct or as diffuse as a generic country-wide television advertisement. There is absolutely zero that is generic about Tesla marketing. As close as they come is the odd announcement via email or Twitter. 21st century Marketing simply is not advertising. Advertising revenues are dropping for that reason. Only the ancient ICE-age types are still doing advertising. Many are doing the online version, such as banner ads and preferential search placement. Those produce more profits fo Google, Facebook et al, but very few know how to use them.
Ameliorate
Member
Holy. Everybody running around with micrometers and a certified paint inspector. It's not a 2 million dollar rolls royce. The goal is to transition to sustainable transportation/energy. If dropping the sticker price by 5k means a few swirls/defects but doubles the customer base, Tesla better swirl the hell outta these things. Vehicles aren't even meant to be on display, they transport people. Show me the swirls when it's going 30mph. Hopefully with robotaxi's they're in motion more than not to displace maximum amounts of ICE's.
It could be hot pink with low profile tires on it (well that might be pushing it....) and I'd still drive it because financially/mathematically you'd be irresponsible to drive anything else, environmental/health benefits not even accounted for. Then you consider it has 3x the lifetime of a traditional vehicle with little to no maintenance costs, better safety, more versatile (offroad, portable generator/air compressor, sell to grid?) Better performance, saving the planet. A paint ding or a door out by 1mm? Doesn't even register. Next customer will happily take it.
There's a saying in construction; fast, good, cheap, Pick two. Three is always desired but not possible.
Build something fast and cheap, it'll be mediocre at best
Fast and good, will take skilled persons, quality material, maybe overtime, it's going to cost extra
Good and cheap, a less skilled person could take their time, or a skilled person do the work as sort of a side project when time/money permits.
People critical of Tesla's fit and finish should know these are likely fixable issues, if one wants to spend more money/time per vehicle. I'm sure this will all get ironed out over time but not at the cost of 0 deliveries until perfection is reached. That would be counter to the mission.....and really I don't think many customers are that particular.
If you want something that looks pretty but has little function, legacy OEM's will be making lots of lawn ornaments in the near future.
It could be hot pink with low profile tires on it (well that might be pushing it....) and I'd still drive it because financially/mathematically you'd be irresponsible to drive anything else, environmental/health benefits not even accounted for. Then you consider it has 3x the lifetime of a traditional vehicle with little to no maintenance costs, better safety, more versatile (offroad, portable generator/air compressor, sell to grid?) Better performance, saving the planet. A paint ding or a door out by 1mm? Doesn't even register. Next customer will happily take it.
There's a saying in construction; fast, good, cheap, Pick two. Three is always desired but not possible.
Build something fast and cheap, it'll be mediocre at best
Fast and good, will take skilled persons, quality material, maybe overtime, it's going to cost extra
Good and cheap, a less skilled person could take their time, or a skilled person do the work as sort of a side project when time/money permits.
People critical of Tesla's fit and finish should know these are likely fixable issues, if one wants to spend more money/time per vehicle. I'm sure this will all get ironed out over time but not at the cost of 0 deliveries until perfection is reached. That would be counter to the mission.....and really I don't think many customers are that particular.
If you want something that looks pretty but has little function, legacy OEM's will be making lots of lawn ornaments in the near future.
Bet TSLA
Active Member
I don't disagree with you or anybody else's desire to know what influential people are saying, even if it's stupid or incorrect. All I said is that spending my time watching Jay Leno saying what he said would be a waste of time for anybody on this forum. There's no nuance to be had. The information is not new. A short description conveys all that's there, which is that he's an enthusiastic supporter. It's not worth a half hour of my life, or even five minutes.
If you want to spend your time watching junk like this, I don't care. You would be doing others a favor if you summarized and saved them the time, like I did. Isn't that what we're here for?
That was a rant. A well said, compelling rant, but a rant nevertheless. I LIKED it.
jhm
Well-Known Member
Promotion, I believe, is the more generic term. It's possible that Tesla does not pay for product placement, not big enough to be a line item. But product placement is not always paid. For me, the issue is not whether Tesla is paying, but how the promotional material circulates socially and impacts consumer perception.
BTW, did anyone notice the Tesla placement in the show "Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist"? The show is placed in Silicon Valley in a high tech start up. At least one character has a Tesla. Maybe Tesla never "paid" for this. Maybe the producers just though this enhanced their story and never informed Tesla.
I agree, although product placement can be colocation with other positive references, and Peterson would qualify. Product Placement is almost always paid surreptitiously located in a positive context, but it also can be achieved in cooperative context, such as Peterson and SpaceX. It could be argued that Elon driving a Cybertruck on an LA Saturday night outing would qualify too. The very best Product Placements can be the ones that appear the most spontaneous and least orchestrated. OTOH, the Peterson one has been generating some serious buzz. Peterson needed the buzz from Cybertruck more than vice-versa. Many people know Peterson now who maybe did not before. I ahem been there more than once when it was almost empty.
How about this, deliver the vehicle to the same fit and finish as the legacy automakers. That is all the majority want.....Problem solved. Tesla by and large does that.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I think it showcases the material and shows that scratches on an all SS body/chassis are not the problem they are on a painted finish. It's definitely a differentiator from all the other trucks out there. And, yes, Cybertruck buyers will be very much in the minority for as far as the eye can see. Those who don't like it can buy something else without impacting sales one little bit. It could be that Tesla just didn't care to dedicate resources to something that isn't going to matter (because they thought it looked fine). I tend to agree and that probably mirrors many future owners habits.
It's a form of thumbing their noses at the way other manufacturers present their wares as glossy showpieces rather than as working trucks.
In classical Marketing 101 there are the Four P's: Product, Place, Promotion and Price. They are useful as a baseline, but antiquated now. Still "promotion' does indeed encompass a broad array. Product Placement, in current context is part of Promotion. That is because Place referred to the distribution system beck in the day. Tesla famously innovated in Place too, with direct distribution.
The problem with using conventional Marketing terms to describe Tesla is identical to trying to compare a Tesla vehicle to an ICE, or a solar roof+Powerwall to a house with a diesel generator. Between Tesla, Google and Amazon we have a world of marketing that does not fit within any traditional definitions. That is mostly why I try to be a trifle pedantic about precision and accuracy with words related to Marketing. Failure to understand the reality produces idiotic shareholder proposals and ignorant suggestions that Tesla should advertise to build awareness.
It is no accident that Tesla is the most efficient marketer in consumer durables.
Ameliorate
Member
I don't go over either with a fine tooth comb. To me Tesla's look much better. I don't think you understood what I was going for since you gave me a disagree. Main point being very minor fit and finish issues are so low on my priority list that I hardly care. Sure it'd be nice if they were perfect, or better than OEM's, but if it was worse, (Wouldn't know because that's not what I'm looking for when buying a vehicle) I AM NOT buying an OEM over a Tesla for that reason alone. Pick any single one of my above points as to why I'd pick a Tesla over a nicer finished OEM car, and there were at least 10. If you want perfect I think the roaster will be a much more fair vehicle to judge by how it shows.
The majority of who exactly? Online complaints? If they aren't selling their cars for a different brand it's not a very effective statement.
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StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
In the bigger picture, it really won't matter if they are delivered in pristine condition or road warrior condition - they will sell everyone they can make. That's how superior the trucks will be in ways that matter. If it keeps the truck posers away, it's done it's job. People are so rigid in their thinking and locked into the old axioms of "how it just has to be". Eeeewww, look, a scratch! If you don't like it, buff it out - Tesla doesn't need to cater to the complainers and perfectionists to succeed wildly. They do need to deliver them in large numbers and at prices people can afford.
Joe F
Disruption is hard.
Yeah, this has gone on far too long. For the record, I’ll stand by my earlier comments that what appears to be swirls in the stainless, are more likely in wax or polish on the frunk. While I agree with you that an intentional finish to create a look other than highly polished (was thinking of a matte finish myself on my Cybertruck) what I see is not such an attempt.
Peace?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
The swirls are definitely scratches in the stainless steel panels! We wouldn't see the metallic looking specular reflections if it were caused by swirls in a coat of wax. My guess is they are caused by polishing compound that was not painstakingly reduced to finer and finer grits (because they purposefully didn't want a mirror finish).
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
I'll better that by predicting it loses over half it's value. But I won't be shorting it because I have no idea how long it will take. However, things don't look good in the near-term with a flood of shares about to come on the market.
Electric : Electricity -> battery -> motor -> drive somewhere
Fuel Cell : Electricity -> hydrogen -> transporting hydrogen -> pumping hydrogen into car -> fuel cell -> motor -> drive somewhere
What's the point of a fuel cell? Shorter time to fill up is the only one I can think of. On Battery Day, if they announce some breakthroughs in charge time, or heck, just solid incremental improvement, then that should be the final nail in the fuel cell coffin.
Fuel Cell : Electricity -> hydrogen -> transporting hydrogen -> pumping hydrogen into car -> fuel cell -> motor -> drive somewhere
What's the point of a fuel cell? Shorter time to fill up is the only one I can think of. On Battery Day, if they announce some breakthroughs in charge time, or heck, just solid incremental improvement, then that should be the final nail in the fuel cell coffin.
lafrisbee
Active Member
Another shade of Leno..I never watched the guy when he was hosting The Tonight Show. But who did...a helluva lot of people that are prime adopters of BEV's with plenty of discretionary money. And they watched him year after year after ... Jay Leno was non-threatening, friendly, and a pal to unwind with after the late news and before bed, heck for alot of people he was their companion IN bed.
And he built a reputation for saving his money (remember "he never spent a check he made from hosting The Tonight Show. He had the comedy gigs for that. So he saved. He earned his money in their minds), and his one real love was his cars. We trust him to know his cars.
When a good buddy starts talking about cars, and we know he knows his shitgar about cars, we listen. I imagine that podcast will actually influence anyone that watched it that knows Jay. He is changing the USA's perception on BEV's more than any other one person.
I have not watched what the Aussie said about an American Legend talking about an American Car Company. I know he put it on grandiose Aussie rose-colored glasses and posted that...but he does not know the truth about how much influence Jay has with the Average 40+ yr old American...yeah the Demographic that can buy a new car every four years when he wants to.
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