Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Quarter was as bad as expected. Cash balance is actually a touch better in a nasty quarter with a lot of vehicles in transit and the quarter ending on a Sunday again. Today is likely the point of max bearishness, but I'm pretty optimistic on the go forward.

The supply bottlenecks have been resolved, the full product portfolio is refreshed and rolled out globally. I would argue that no consumer product company in the world has the product vitality / freshness of Tesla. I see Q2 being a far better quarter than Q1 and then the true earnings power beginning to show through in Q3 this year.

Importantly too, deliveries should grow QoQ for quite literally the next two years between Shanghai coming online, Model Y launching (likely ahead of schedule), the semi ramping, and probably a European factory next year.

Cash flow should be positive from here on so they don't need capital (though I wish they'd raise but they won't do it here).

Q1 was terrible, but that should have been known post delivery results. I think you should quite literally throw it out. In no way is it indicative of the future earnings power of the business. Between supply bottlenecks, logistics challenges, and the Model S / X transition there's just not much of meaning to take away.

People are wayyyy too bearish. Next datapoint is going to be InsideEVs estimate for April deliveries, which I think will surprise people to the upside and confirm that demand has rebounded.

Beyond the quarter, I was at the analyst day and had a long conversation with Elon after the presentation. If Tesla achieves its autonomuos vision, the Company will be quite literally the most valuable business in the world. People are ascribing a 0% probability that Tesla can achieve their autonomous vision. I would argue that a 0% probability on anything Elon Musk is a very bad assumption. Maybe he'll be late but he almost always gets the job done. Cornell paper which came out supporting vision is very interesting validation from a third party.

Totally agree with your mid term and long term assessment WRT deliveries and autonomy. However I am still concerned about the next qtr or 2 especially for S and X.
Believe demand will stay depressed till there is a more holistic refresh of the interiors and the battery pack moves to 2170. Rumors about the Panasonic shift to 2170 don't help either.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: rzareiser
Unfortunately there really isn't any major potential positive catalysts on the horizon until like june/july....

How quickly we forget all the great news over the last week, eh?

This is pure bear/short attack - they think they can kill off Tesla, which of course they can't, but they can destroy investor confidence, which then is hard to get back.

They've also been smart enough over the last week not to trigger the uptick.

Regardless of what people say, I think we need the SEC off our back for many to start buying and we need solid production/delivery numbers to dispel the demand myth (or not...). This could start next week with InsideEV's guesstimates for April.
 
and we see 238 as expected.

still not sure where next is, but that technical downturn isn’t meaningless to those types of traders

Today, you mean? Well, they always try to knock off 10 bux and stay within the -10% drop that triggers the uptick rule. So $237.63 would be their immediate goal.

But that's just pennies away now gone, and its lunchtime in NYC so...
 
  • Informative
Reactions: neroden
Why not? If their TSLA holdings go above I think 10% of their portfolio they have to sell, if it's below that they are free to buy more.
TSLA is currently 9.47% of ARK's portfolio. They sold more than 300,000 shares in 4th quarter 2018 when it was 5.6% of the portfolio.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with what ARK is doing. To the contrary, my point was that their approach will likely maximize the return for their clients. But I think it is a stretch to say that ARK sells TSLA only when it is forced to by the restriction you cite.
To be clear, ARK’s policy is to not buy any more of a stock if it is more than 10% of an ETF. It does not have a policy to automatically sell any of a stock that becomes more than 10% of an ETF. However it will often sell some of such a stock to raise money to buy more of another favorite that has dipped.

As I recall in mid-October ARK heavily bought TSLA, then in early December it heavily sold TSLA before the late December plummet. The latter sales along with the price drop brought their holding in TSLA to under 6%. They have been buying TSLA this year after any of its big dips. Keep in mind that only 3 of ARK’s 7 ETF’s contain any TSLA.
 
How quickly we forget all the great news over the last week, eh?

This is pure bear/short attack - they think they can kill off Tesla, which of course they can't, but they can destroy investor confidence, which then is hard to get back.

They've also been smart enough over the last week not to trigger the uptick.

Regardless of what people say, I think we need the SEC off our back for many to start buying and we need solid production/delivery numbers to dispel the demand myth (or not...). This could start next week with InsideEV's guesstimates for April.

It must really hurt for Elon to negotiate with the SEC at this time. Hopefully his lawyers are doing the talking, but we hear ya Elon.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Artful Dodger
P&D #s early in July should be significant.
Adam Janus has already moved the goalposts to the mythical Q3 cap raise. He's pushing his book hard, which is fees for his brokerage.

Hey Adam! We don't need you! We can get cheap debt from literally dozens of places that aren't Morgan Stanley. Give it up! You can not win.

/rant :p
 
Here's a question...

Market cap is approaching $40b with only two thirds of the shares on the stock exchange.

At what point can Elon friends just buy back the whole goddamn company? Either they could do it in one shot "Considering taking private at $280" or get some allies to steadily increase their institutional holdings? Obviously that would drive the share price back up...
 
I'm not so sure about EV tax credit. I'd like to believe, but the current administration, along with a good portion of congress don't care to invest in EVs. At the State level we see them actively working to discourage their purchase. The Koch brothers and ALEC have been busy working with republicans in the state legislatures to create punitive EV registration taxes.

Koch-Funded Groups—Yet Again—Speak Out Against Electric Vehicle Tax Credits
The Latest Threat to Electric Cars - Center for American Progress

It is an odd position for the administration that is so pro US manufacturing that they don't realize the current EV tax credit is now mostly subsidizing foreign car makers with the 2 domestic EV manufacturers: Tesla and GM having hit the tax credit cap.

When you combine these lobbying efforts with the absolutely ridiculous rules that limit Tesla's ability to open service centers in a large number of states it is depressing how badly the deck is stacked against them.

Thx for the links.

Is anyone countering something like the following:
Sure, drop the EV incentives, IF you are willing to drop the enormous oil industry subsidies that dwarf any EV subsidies, and that keep our prices at the pump at a fraction of the rest of the world, AND IF you also allow EV manufacturers to compete on a level basis with state-protected franchise monopolies?
 
  • Love
Reactions: UncaNed
Here's a question...

Market cap is approaching $40b with only two thirds of the shares on the stock exchange.

At what point can Elon friends just buy back the whole goddamn company? Either they could do it in one shot "Considering taking private at $280" or get some allies to steadily increase their institutional holdings? Obviously that would drive the share price back up...

I imagine under $200 you're looking at possible takeover danger...