Sounds like fun.
According to google, it will involve walking around half naked with a sword and a pig.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
According to google, it will involve walking around half naked with a sword and a pig.
I don't think this is possible due to differences in battery longevity. If current cells work for 400k miles and new cells are 1m miles there is far more inherent value in the latter - even if both packs allow the same distance on a single charge.
Additionally (although probably unlikely), if the new packs are sufficiently energy dense enough and the weight of the vehicle is materially affected there may performance benefits in the latter that are just not possible in the former.
Mo City
Active Member
It's also possible charging the new cells to 100% and running them down to near zero on a regular has no negative impact on the battery.
The charge rate while supercharging may not slow appreciably as the charge nears 100%.
Speed of charging, energy density, cost and longevity are important for EVs, for energy storage it is mostly just cost and longevity
So 2170 cells with Million mile formulation are fine for Energy Storage,
Long term Roadrunner may migrate progressively to all vehicle platforms, they can avoid the Osborn effect by starting with the higher priced variants or models..
Any predictions we make about Battery Day may turn out to be wrong, but Tesla will use all of the capacity of GF1 for something, .2170 cells in Million Mile formulation seem possible.
So 2170 cells with Million mile formulation are fine for Energy Storage,
Long term Roadrunner may migrate progressively to all vehicle platforms, they can avoid the Osborn effect by starting with the higher priced variants or models..
Any predictions we make about Battery Day may turn out to be wrong, but Tesla will use all of the capacity of GF1 for something, .2170 cells in Million Mile formulation seem possible.
If your Grandmother lives near California and can take delivery of a performance model before the end of june
tell her to go for it. Roundabout update (fsd) should add a little bit from deferred revenue.
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Longevity of the pack has nothing to do with the form factor, its about implementing Jeff Dahn's new chemistry. That can be easily adopted as a running change in existing production lines.
Hopefully, but that's an assumption. My understanding for various internet videos is that both chemistry and the DBE manufacturing process work towards inhibiting dendrite growth. Also, if the chemistry can be easily adopted why hasn't it occurred already?
Perhaps my initial comment should have been more generalised to - if there's any performance characteristic outside of range per charge that is substantially improved through Tesla's new cells compared to ones manufactured by Panasonic there will be a difference in value between vehicles. As a result they would need to be priced differently.
RobStark
Well-Known Member
Largest Companies in the World by Market Cap.
Mike Smith
Active Member
Coronavirus was the perfect storm for tech innovation, and this fund manager made out
'MarketWatch: You get a lot of press, including from me, about your thinking on Tesla US:TSLA but this time I’d love to get your take on bitcoin US:BTCUSD . Why should investors be paying attention now, and does anything that we’ve just talked about apply to it? The idea that it could be a more accessible form of capital for the underbanked, people cut off from credit?
Wood: Oh, could we just talk about Tesla a little bit, since it just hit a new all-time high, $1,000?
MarketWatch: Yes, that’s a really good point. Of course.
Wood: It’s very interesting. There’s an awakening in this market. If you looked at Tesla a year ago it had been trashed by hedge funds and many others, saying it is going to run out of cash. From one year ago when the stock got down to the $170s, to now, it just crossed $1,000, what you will see is that the balance sheet everyone was criticizing last year, today looks like a fortress compared to the balance sheets of traditional auto manufacturers.
Traditional manufacturers are in trouble. We’ve been trying to get that message out for a long time. Tesla was going to disrupt the traditional manufacturers which would have to make a number of great leaps to catch up. In fact, they’ve had to cut back on their investments. They haven’t succeeded in switching from the traditional internal combustion engine. They can’t get up to Tesla’s standards.
We’ve seen Tesla moving toward autonomous. Artificial intelligence is a big part of that. I think that analysts are beginning to get it. It’s less auto analysts and maybe analysts who are more technology-oriented. This is going to be one of the biggest investment opportunities of our lifetime. We were roundly disparaged last year.
MarketWatch: You came out with a $7,000 price target in February, I think it was. Does that still stand?
Wood: We’ve adjusted our base price for coronavirus. Over a five-year horizon, we took the base price target to $6,800 but there is something else that we think could take it much higher. It will probably launch its own ride hailing service, with human drivers, sometime this year. Tesla will sell a car for a down payment, and then the person buying the car will be able to pay the rest of it via their earnings. It’s a really good idea and I think they’re going to do it and we’ve just finished the modeling. It would take our price target up considerably. Compared to their current model, ride hailing is much more profitable, and I don’t think anyone has put that in their model.'
'MarketWatch: You get a lot of press, including from me, about your thinking on Tesla US:TSLA but this time I’d love to get your take on bitcoin US:BTCUSD . Why should investors be paying attention now, and does anything that we’ve just talked about apply to it? The idea that it could be a more accessible form of capital for the underbanked, people cut off from credit?
Wood: Oh, could we just talk about Tesla a little bit, since it just hit a new all-time high, $1,000?
MarketWatch: Yes, that’s a really good point. Of course.
Wood: It’s very interesting. There’s an awakening in this market. If you looked at Tesla a year ago it had been trashed by hedge funds and many others, saying it is going to run out of cash. From one year ago when the stock got down to the $170s, to now, it just crossed $1,000, what you will see is that the balance sheet everyone was criticizing last year, today looks like a fortress compared to the balance sheets of traditional auto manufacturers.
Traditional manufacturers are in trouble. We’ve been trying to get that message out for a long time. Tesla was going to disrupt the traditional manufacturers which would have to make a number of great leaps to catch up. In fact, they’ve had to cut back on their investments. They haven’t succeeded in switching from the traditional internal combustion engine. They can’t get up to Tesla’s standards.
We’ve seen Tesla moving toward autonomous. Artificial intelligence is a big part of that. I think that analysts are beginning to get it. It’s less auto analysts and maybe analysts who are more technology-oriented. This is going to be one of the biggest investment opportunities of our lifetime. We were roundly disparaged last year.
MarketWatch: You came out with a $7,000 price target in February, I think it was. Does that still stand?
Wood: We’ve adjusted our base price for coronavirus. Over a five-year horizon, we took the base price target to $6,800 but there is something else that we think could take it much higher. It will probably launch its own ride hailing service, with human drivers, sometime this year. Tesla will sell a car for a down payment, and then the person buying the car will be able to pay the rest of it via their earnings. It’s a really good idea and I think they’re going to do it and we’ve just finished the modeling. It would take our price target up considerably. Compared to their current model, ride hailing is much more profitable, and I don’t think anyone has put that in their model.'
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Dr. Jeff Dahn's lab does all his chemistry research using coin cells. Although its a totally different physical format, it's the actual chemistry they're testing.
Yes, its true we wouldn't know if the new chemistry as been applied currently, since nobody on the internet does any actual testing (except perhaps Jack Rickard)
Jeff Dahn's approach to mitigating the dendrite formation problem is by including new electrolyte additives. Causes of the dendrite issue are discussed in this article:
Scientists pinpoint cause of harmful dendrites and whiskers in lithium batteries: Team modifies electrolyte chemistry to prevent the piercing structures
Agreed, the new Tesla pack will have several improvements, most notable I think are:
- tabless electrodes (faster charging; better cold wx discharge)
- cell-to-pack format (cheaper, faster manufacturing; ↑ cooling ↑ density)
- Dry bty electrode (DBE) tech (↓ factory footprint/↑prod. /↑ Energ. capacity)
- electrolyte additives (patented Sodium di-flourophosphate gives ↑ cycle life)
- nano-ground electrode powders (↑ cell perf / ↓ production waste)
- single crystal cathode materials (preventing cracks; ↑ cell cycle life)
I expect a full implementation of all Tesla's new bty tech will first appear in Cybertruck, as it will likely require a complete new production process.
In the meantime, I do expect that the pilot bty line being constructed in Fremont will be a proof-of-concept working demonstration of some of these new techniques, and likely first delivered in the Plaid S.
Cheers!
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Looks really nice in black. We like small cars in Central Europe.
Mighty interesting and at times funny, a discussion about FSD and roundabouts. But not in this thread. Do continue over here, where 9 posts found a new home: FSD and roundabouts (out of main)
It's funny you saw the Car in the US but it's for European customers, whats the Point from VW to show it in the US?
Probably a repost but I just noticed that June 2022 $2000 calls are now available.
Fishy Fish
Member
Isn't there often a bit of a spike/dip at 7 or 7:30 as volume of day traders picks up, then again at 8:30 as more jump in and certain institutions open pre market trading? I know mine only offers trading from 8:30 to 5:30 ET
There was also the interview with ark on MarketWatch mentioned above that came out this morning. That plus the increase in volume I mentioned perhaps? It's knocked back slightly now at any rate
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ProfTournesol
Member
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
CNBC highlights TSLA as one of the markets "biggest movers" in the pre-market.
How much is it down to make this list? It's up 1%. Lol!
How much is it down to make this list? It's up 1%. Lol!
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