Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[lafrisbee]

They are waking up right now.

I never called them competition to Tesla. I said that they would find a way in their desperation to produce subpar BEVs that will sell because all kinds of crappy subpar cars sell right now.

I am optimistic that enough batteries will be produced by 2030, a decade from now, that any company which actually wants to build a BEV will be able to.

At this point, if you are not an optimist about the possibilities available to this Earth, then what the hell have you got?

Let me ask elon about that...
"MARS"

 

[capster]

I've posted my thoughts on this already but...
From what I can figure out without knowing anything about "big players" in the stock market, I have come to understand the saying "The Market does not like uncertainty." The rise in SP over the last few days certainly bears that out.
However the S&P 500 Committee kept some "uncertainty" in the addition of TSLA by stating the "Tranches" idea.
It is only my thought without any outside influence, but I think that the "big players" immediately started running simulations on the three scenarios to determine any advantage they may get when it comes to the THREE timelines for admittance as soon as the "announcement" was made...if not sooner.
I would also entertain that the S&P 500 Committee had some understanding of the "uncertain" they were keeping in play when they told the world that TSLA would be admitted, but that timeline had some variance/uncertainty still in it.
I am NOT of the opinion that "big players" are not already strongly impacting the SP by buying the stock for some reason I can not identify or understand. Even to the point that they are purchasing the stock now just so it is available when the time comes so as to keep the SP from becoming a larger magnitude of irrational.
So short answer, Yeah. The Big Boys haven't been inactive. They have already figured their strategy for acquiring the needed amount of stcok based on the three timelines that under consideration. And they may be backdoor buying it not so they can just transfer it over from one account to another because I have read in more than one place if/when they do this the account that is purchasing has to acquire it at the market price at the time. However if enough can be rat-holed away, that action will help dampen the surge during the time The Big Boys are supposed to buy. Which in turn may lessen the SP drop after the buying period, which is good for the Longs.

Would you please break up the walls of text you post by adding a blank line between your paragraphs (two carriage returns instead of one on this forum) or indenting the first line of each paragraph?

You have some worthwhile contributions but it’s harder to get at them with no visible structure to help your readers.

TIA

 

[mejojo]

For some, gambling

Many in the investing world have had similar results. Only difference is, they started with a million (or more).

Something like half the children in the US are being raised by single parents. Funds will be tight for many. The alternative to Tesla will be walking or taking the bus.

Note that "unmarried" does not equal "single"

 

[Off Shore]

Anyone familiar with Ben Felix? Thought his latest video on technological revolutions and investing was pretty relevant to Tesla and the EV market. Anyone smarter than me want to make some sense of it in relation to expectations for TSLA?

I know everyone here is pretty bullish with TSLA but I like to look at alternative view points to make sure I am still making the right decision to stay invested in TSLA. One could easily make the argument that this explains the rise in a stock like Nikola.

NB Nothing but a successful (to this point) grift explains the rise in a stock like Nikola.

 

[lafrisbee]

Would you please break up the walls of text you post by adding a blank line between your paragraphs (two carriage returns instead of one on this forum) or indenting the first line of each paragraph?

You have some worthwhile contributions but it’s harder to get at them with no visible structure to help your readers.

TIA

I think I might know what is happening when this occurs (as it has occurred before). If I find some grammatical error and I have already hit "post," then when I edit the body of the post the software deletes the "paragraphs." I noticed it happens on reddit. Maybe it is because I use chrome?

 

[UkNorthampton]

‘Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?’

Today's reminder that only Tesla takes the charging network seriously and none of the traditional automakers seem to get how important that is. Tesla has the most obvious and basic advantage imaginable over the others, the ability to drive the car further than a single full charge, and no one else cares.

Also The Guardian pretending Tesla didn't exist is funny, but they have been famously anti-Elon for many years now. I wonder if the people of the UK know how much their media is destructive to their nation's interests. Their media is worse than the American media IMO.

The effects of having bad, biased media are ever present. The grauniad (deliberate misspelling) is not as bad as some, but I have yet to see a supportive form of mainstream media. For most, advertising spending and make believe PR FUD about hydrogen does the job.

I'm particularly narked about upcoming changes.

Relating to Tesla (energy, solar, car parts and cars) and competitors, the UK trade/tax system may change on 1 Jan 2021. Currently (I believe, might be wrong) - 10% for USA Teslas, 5-10% for China Teslas and 0% for EU cars including Berlin Teslas.

From 1 Jan 2021, could have 0-10% tariffs across the board. 10% is normal WTO, but UK can unilaterally put to zero on all car imports from EVERY country (no preferential treatment). Overall, these tariff (import tax) changes might be positive for USA/China Model 3/S/X/Y imports but negative for EU Model Y. This is partly due to EU cars (vast majority including Hyundai/Kia made in Slovakia etc) having no import tax advantage compared to Tesla. I suspect UK will be getting its 3/Y cars from China, so right-hand drive 3/Y makes sense to make in China as biggest markets closer or no tax advantage (RHD - Thailand, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Japan - exceptions are small islands, parts of Africa and some EU states like Eire, Cyprus and Malta).

 

[lafrisbee]

NB Nothing but a successful (to this point) grift explains the rise in a stock like Nikola.

While "grift" refers to a "small" swindle, I do believe that the spirit of a grift is at work with TSLA. And I feel as though it is a truly concerted effort, As if one foot is on the accelerator or the brake of what TSLA stock will do at any given time.
I don't see how some of the sudden start and stops have anything to do with fundamentals, especially some of the HUGE movements in price or number of shares sold per day. The easiest metric to see where there is a coordinated move is how the number of shares "traded" on a given day went from 60m to 30m in what seemed like a day. And yet the price didn't change much.
But then we care more about the price. The SP moves or stalls or worse with a snap of the fingers. Here again, without any real reason.
Someone's making a mint from understanding and controlling this stock. And it ain't me or you. We are just getting personally rich.

 

[Bet TSLA]

I would suggest you believe I'm being inconsistent because you didn't bother to actually understand what I said. It might be necessary to leave personal biases behind and read it again.

Tesla had settled down to a nice solid $408/share before S&P announced they had decided to include them. By my reckoning it would be above that right now with no announcement. Tesla doesn't need their share price to be higher than that to succeed brilliantly. Anyone who doesn't understand that is confusing the performance of the share price with performance of the underlying company.

It's obviously true that the S&P 500 needed Tesla more than Tesla needed the S&P 500. It boggles my mind why you take issue with something so self-evident.

And I would suggest that you haven't bothered to understand what I've written. Now you're imagining I have "personal biases", presumably more significant than the personal biases we all have. Personally I'm biased towards truth, accuracy, consistency, and good spelling and grammar. I tend to be biased against stupidity and ignorance. You?

And you think Tesla doesn't need their share price to be higher than 408-ish to succeed brilliantly? Really? Did anybody suggest different? You're not making much sense here. I'm still happy with my original statement that "It's quite clear that TSLA is better off (i.e. higher) now than before the S&P index committee admitted that Tesla exists." To the company it makes little difference.

 

[UkNorthampton]

if you read the guardian article mentioned by @UnknownSoldier (caution advised, it's awful), the taycan owners didn't plan - they relied on the car's navigation system. - ‘Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?’

Now, you can do that in a Tesla in most places but anyone with a little caution or had done some research would be better prepared with abetterrouteplanner, zap-map and more prepared would have a host of apps and even cards etc.

Hopefully I can include a small quote - "When they finally got to a working fast charger at a motorway services – via two more that were not operating – they were met with eight shiny Tesla chargers but discovered they were out of bounds because they are only available to the brand’s owners."

Discovered? Discovered?

In the UK it seems common to have only 1 or 2 other make chargers at motorway services which are often broken.

How much of this article is real? I'm not sure, these might just be the optimistic brand-loyal types who didn't research ahead of time. We're well past early adopters and need charging to be Tesla-easy for all.

Repeated in (pretend) local rag - no mention of Tesla - Kent couple's 9 hour drive from hell while trying to charge electric Porsche

Additional blood boiling grauniad article, so you can know what many in the UK are being fed... - Electric cars: five best buys, from new models to used bargains

"Best overall: Tesla Model 3...
Rapid charging is available from Tesla’s Supercharger network and conventional CCS charge points.

IPhone users will want this car. Those who prefer the value they get from a top Android phone may want to opt for the Kia instead. And if you can afford it, buy the Jag."

The Jag write-up is underwhelming. Corporate ad-fed media of any real or pretend political slant is a danger. This kind of wrong info needs to be countered. Luckily EV mission will happen anyway and Tesla are at full speed.

 

[lafrisbee]

To piggyback on my "grift" reply above...

Do you remember how when Battery Day happened that some of us were over the moon (not me) about how great the future was for Tesla? There should have been a significant rise in the stock price the next day. There wasn't. Some preached that the Fund managers had to absorb the importance for the stock to rise, but it would come. And it didn't.

And there are many more examples where the truly obvious never happens. My belief is that the reason the Stock Price never jumped after Battery Day is because the Powers that be monitored the movement and saw they didn't need to pay for the increased value in the company. For all I know they made an effort to dull the good Battery Day Report.

And the SP movement and lack around the Split? That was insane. The SP was going up like crazy. But the day before the split it dropped like a rock. And even after the split it dropped and dropped. The belief was that after the split it would go up due to the lower SP being more palatable. The buying pre-split was done to capitalize on the Robinhooders coming in...that never happened. ALL the money was harvested the day BEFORE the split. And if I remember it right the selling was from the opening bell.

I want S&P inclusion AND Buffet to have a large stake in TSLA so the stock can move on its merits.

 

[jerry33]

To piggyback on my "grift" reply above...
Do you remember how when Battery Day happened that some of us were over the moon (not me) about how great the future was for Tesla? There should have been a significant rise in the stock price the next day. There wasn't.

There never is after this kind of event--unless it's accompanied by "All cars starting last week have this included". Analysts never care about future prospects, only events that are happing this quarter.

 

[lafrisbee]

There never is after this kind of event--unless it's accompanied by "All cars starting last week have this included". Analysts never care about future prospects, only events that are happing this quarter.

I can see that from a robin hood investor mindset. Or a day trader. But NOT the big guys.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Joint statement of the Zero Emission Vehicle Transition Council
Joint statement of the Zero Emission Vehicle Transition Council

Quite a wide selection of countries. Not all 26 though.

Signatories:
Alok Sharma, COP President and Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, UK
Benny Engelbrecht, Minister of Transport, Denmark
Jared Blumenfeld, California Secretary for Environmental Protection
Jean-Baptiste Djebbari, Minister for Ecological Transition, France
Kang Kyungsung, Deputy Minister, Trade and Investment, Ministry of Trade Industry and Energy, South Korea
Marc Garneau, Minister of Transport, Canada
Mathias Fischer, State Secretary, Ministry of Climate and Environment, Norway
Shigehiro Tanaka, Vice-Minister for International Affairs, Japan
Stientje van Veldhoven, State Secretary for Infrastructure & Water Management, Netherlands
Teresa Ribera, Minister for the Ecological Transition and Demographic Challenge, Spain
Tomas Eneroth, Minister for Infrastructure, Ministry of Infrastructure, Sweden
Dr. Graciela Márquez Colín, Minister of Economy, Mexico

 

[LTC_RRR]

Joint statement of the Zero Emission Vehicle Transition Council
Joint statement of the Zero Emission Vehicle Transition Council

Quite a wide selection of countries. Not all 26 though.

Signatories:
Alok Sharma, COP President and Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, UK
Benny Engelbrecht, Minister of Transport, Denmark
Jared Blumenfeld, California Secretary for Environmental Protection
Jean-Baptiste Djebbari, Minister for Ecological Transition, France
Kang Kyungsung, Deputy Minister, Trade and Investment, Ministry of Trade Industry and Energy, South Korea
Marc Garneau, Minister of Transport, Canada
Mathias Fischer, State Secretary, Ministry of Climate and Environment, Norway
Shigehiro Tanaka, Vice-Minister for International Affairs, Japan
Stientje van Veldhoven, State Secretary for Infrastructure & Water Management, Netherlands
Teresa Ribera, Minister for the Ecological Transition and Demographic Challenge, Spain
Tomas Eneroth, Minister for Infrastructure, Ministry of Infrastructure, Sweden
Dr. Graciela Márquez Colín, Minister of Economy, Mexico

California isn't a country . . . yet

 

[lafrisbee]

Who’s looking forward to putting a bed in the back of the Cybertruck and put it in self driving. So many fun things I can think of while in the bed and the truck is driving itself.

I got censor/deleted for such a comment earlier today. Someone posted about a paradigm shift concerning Apple or Tesla "phone." And I posted the Elon Phone would be neural link and it will "below" your mind. My comment was quite smart as two things drive technology and its adoption...DARPA and something I am afraid to say as it may get me a suspension...
BTW even my spell checker program wants to change "below" to the word I got censored for.
Now as to your "bed" on the back of a cybertruck that you can "do so many fun things in".... (How did you get away with that?)
I am very happy to wait two years to get my Cybertrck for several reasons. The one relevant here is that the after-market modifications will be fleshed out. And I believe a "wedge" top will make the Cybertrck a beefy/roomy station wagon-esque. Which will be great for "fun things" like playing checkers. If you are moving the air suspension will make it possible. No need to resort to baser fun things.

 

[jerry33]

I can see that from a robin hood investor mindset. Or a day trader. But NOT the big guys.

You would think so, but recall that the executives get paid for quarterly results (there are exceptions), so they're just as prone to discount the future as the analysts. Also they are probably not particularly well informed on Tesla (as the majority are going to get their information from the media, which is very anti-Tesla), and very likely have a lot invested in fossil fuels and the status quo.

 

[Bet TSLA]

A first-principles thinker would ask: What is a child seat for?

Exactly. What Elon would likely say: "The best child seat is no child seat."

Answer: To safely restrain the child with a child-sized harness.

Closer, but no.

The problem isn't special equipment for children, the problem is passenger safety: perceived, actual, and laws surrounding. The solution is to make the robotaxi safe for all of its passengers. How to accomplish that might be an interesting discussion for some other thread. Current solutions are stupid, ineffective in various ways, add their own set of dangers, and address only a subset of the population. Do y'all really think Tesla should just make something less awful? You know they hate to waste resources on that sort of underachievement.

My bet is that Tesla's goal is a mobile livingroom that can't crash, or at least has a "drive cautiously" mode where the chance of a crash is so small as to be irrelevant. They'll have to develop this to support vehicles for mobile nail salons, retail, and other services to be delivered while in transit and unrestrained.

Experience: four kids growing up through all stages of special car restraints.

 

[UkNorthampton]

California isn't a country . . . yet

Wasn't sure which California


California, Ipswich - Wikipedia
California Beach | Beach | Great Yarmouth|Norfolk

 

[X Fan]

ESPN headline:
Santa Clara County issued an enhanced COVID-19 guidelines for professional, collegiate and youth sports on Saturday afternoon that effectively puts a three-week ban on any contact sports taking place in the county.

Sigh...

 

[Artful Dodger]

Happy for you ! However, why would an early delivery point to business going well?

It means the logistics and distribution part of the sale is performing well. That's the actual business, as opposed to how the SP is performing.

Cheers!