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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Frankly that sounds a horrific environment to work under. I understand you need a safe good working env for all but wow.

The ‘woke’ nonsense has honestly gotten completely out of control here in the US in the last few years, to the point where it has gone past diminishing returns for what these policies are supposed to promote (harmony) into negative returns.
 
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To me I dont care about range changes and things like that. I dont want customers to be picking where the Y they order comes from. So if the initial Y's coming from Austin use 2170 cells instead of 4680 cells that is fine to me. When they switch over to 4680 cells the range and prices shouldnt change. Never want the person ordering to get different range or other capability because car came from Austin. I also really dont want the factory to have to be retrofitted with new robots when 4680's ready. Ok minimal changes. I do this not for the person buying, but because I want costs kept down and margins to increase.
Maybe some people will do that, but with a half-year waiting list to get *any* new Model Y they would just shorten the queue a bit. They will still sell every Model Y they make because the sale price is less than the market-clearing price. Also, customers will get a car from the factory nearest to them.
 
The cans are definitely stressed members and there is no metallic honeycomb structure. It's simply cans glued together. I see no other way to interpret this verbiage from Elon on 2020 Battery Day, plus the slides.

"[The structural pack] also allows us to pack cells more densely because we do not have intermediate structures in the battery pack...instead of just having a filler that is a flame retardant...we have a filler that is a structural adhesive as well as flame retardant. So, it effectively glues the cells to the top and bottom sheet, and this allows you to do shear transfer between the upper and lower sheet, just like if you have like a Formula 1 craft or like a racing boat, and you have carbon fiber face sheets and, say, aluminum honeycomb in between them, this gives incredible stiffness and it's really the way any super-fast thing works...we can actually use the steel shell case of the battery to transfer shear from the upper and lower face sheet which makes for an incredibly stiff structure, even stiffer than a regular car...I really think that long term, any cars that do not take this architecture will not be competitive."

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😉

I think the most likely path was layed out by "the limiting factor".

4680 have a bigger ring-like end in one side where the copper contracts are. This you can just drop them in the Aluminium honeycomb & they will fall into position (sandy would approve!). Then you put a heat transfer compound-glue on it and seal it with a lid.
Turn it 180 degrees, now you have the other contact side of the batteries always perfect in the same position for the individual fuses. Then lay busbars on it, have bms-stuff in flexible PCBs, everything quite even, fill up with epoxy, put lid on, done.

I think this would be an easy, fast & compact way to assemble it. And could be completely automated.
 
In the early ought decade, around 2003-4, I became aware of the naked-short phenomenon, invented and promulgated by Bernie Madoff. When the uptake rule was removed in 2007 (under the watch of George W. and Christopher Cox, SEC Chairman), that was the nail in the coffin for retail investors and it was a coup d'etat for the manipulators. I was a broker at the time. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to talk with anyone in my industry about this issue, because everyone thought I had a propeller hat, like they did Patrick Byrne. No one understood what the hell I was talking about.

Two years ago I talked with a just-retired lawyer for the Nasdaq and told him of my frustration. He confirmed that selling shares naked, along with the ability to sell these non-existent shares at lower and lower prices is rampant in the market and has been for quite a while. As if this advantage wasn't enough, the newest abuse of the system is long-term Fails-to Deliver. Since the big firms own and operate FINRA (literally), the NGO that is responsible for reporting FTD, they have found they can get away with misreporting, or not reporting at all, the amount and durations of the FTDs. As I have mentioned before, the only thing that can force the delivery of these "air shares", is the distribution of new split shares or the distribution of a whole new equity, such as in a spinoff to shareholders. Bastids.
^ Great explanation.
- Honest question - What needs to happen to fix this besides the end of the World? Is there a method to change this corruption and madness?

😉

I think the most likely path was layed out by "the limiting factor".

4680 have a bigger ring-like end in one side where the copper contracts are. This you can just drop them in the Aluminium honeycomb & they will fall into position (sandy would approve!). Then you put a heat transfer compound-glue on it and seal it with a lid.
Turn it 180 degrees, now you have the other contact side of the batteries always perfect in the same position for the individual fuses. Then lay busbars on it, have bms-stuff in flexible PCBs, everything quite even, fill up with epoxy, put lid on, done.

I think this would be an easy, fast & compact way to assemble it. And could be completely automated.
^ Thank you! Finally. This is exactly what've been thinking. I am glad you expained it neatly.
 
😉

I think the most likely path was layed out by "the limiting factor".

4680 have a bigger ring-like end in one side where the copper contracts are. This you can just drop them in the Aluminium honeycomb & they will fall into position (sandy would approve!). Then you put a heat transfer compound-glue on it and seal it with a lid.
Turn it 180 degrees, now you have the other contact side of the batteries always perfect in the same position for the individual fuses. Then lay busbars on it, have bms-stuff in flexible PCBs, everything quite even, fill up with epoxy, put lid on, done.

I think this would be an easy, fast & compact way to assemble it. And could be completely automated.

This might be an easy way to assemble it, but it's not what Elon said in his description just quoted. He said "filler [between the cells] that is a structural adhesive as well as flame retardant." The aluminum honeycomb he mentioned is in "a Formula 1 craft or like a racing boat," which illustrates the structural principle, not Tesla's design. In Tesla's design, the steel cans of the battery cells will form the load-bearing honeycomb.
 
This might be an easy way to assemble it, but it's not what Elon said in his description just quoted. He said "filler [between the cells] that is a structural adhesive as well as flame retardant." The aluminum honeycomb he mentioned is in "a Formula 1 craft or like a racing boat," which illustrates the structural principle, not Tesla's design. In Tesla's design, the steel cans of the battery cells will form the load-bearing honeycomb.
Exactly as I interpret it as well. Set the cells in the pack and pump in adhesive around them.
 
This might be an easy way to assemble it, but it's not what Elon said in his description just quoted. He said "filler [between the cells] that is a structural adhesive as well as flame retardant." The aluminum honeycomb he mentioned is in "a Formula 1 craft or like a racing boat," which illustrates the structural principle, not Tesla's design. In Tesla's design, the steel cans of the battery cells will form the load-bearing honeycomb.


I suspect the bigger end defines the spacing eliminating the need for the aluminum honeycomb or other “fixture.” In other words, the cases all touch at the big end.

The cells come out of a tightly dimensionally controlled process. It makes sense to leverage that to obtain uniform fire retardant/adhesive gaps. Weight and adhesive consumption variation should be low using this leverage.
 
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In the early ought decade, around 2003-4, I became aware of the naked-short phenomenon, invented and promulgated by Bernie Madoff. When the uptake rule was removed in 2007 (under the watch of George W. and Christopher Cox, SEC Chairman), that was the nail in the coffin for retail investors and it was a coup d'etat for the manipulators. I was a broker at the time. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to talk with anyone in my industry about this issue, because everyone thought I had a propeller hat, like they did Patrick Byrne. No one understood what the hell I was talking about.

Two years ago I talked with a just-retired lawyer for the Nasdaq and told him of my frustration. He confirmed that selling shares naked, along with the ability to sell these non-existent shares at lower and lower prices is rampant in the market and has been for quite a while. As if this advantage wasn't enough, the newest abuse of the system is long-term Fails-to Deliver. Since the big firms own and operate FINRA (literally), the NGO that is responsible for reporting FTD, they have found they can get away with misreporting, or not reporting at all, the amount and durations of the FTDs. As I have mentioned before, the only thing that can force the delivery of these "air shares", is the distribution of new split shares or the distribution of a whole new equity, such as in a spinoff to shareholders. Bastids.
When I closed my investment fund and moved to Alaska in the mid-90s, my third-largest investor moved all those assets to Madoff. Before I wrote this last sentence, I never had felt the least bit culpable for the complete loss he - or rather, his widow - incurred, but I see one could posit that had I not done so, nor would he have moved those funds. Still, that thought likely will not lose me sleep.
 
For a serf like me (with all of my 1 year of Economics education + zero industry experience) to figure it out, it must be rotten to the core. Big players are getting filthy rich off this scam (while continuing to emit obscene amounts of carbon). #JPMorganChase

TSLA should move to the LTSE. But only if the SEC can somehow be prevented from applying Reg. SHO (a.k.a. the "Madoff Exemption").
^ Great explanation.
- Honest question - What needs to happen to fix this besides the end of the World? Is there a method to change this corruption and madness?


^ Thank you! Finally. This is exactly what've been thinking. I am glad you expained it neatly.
Structurally, I think the only paradigm that can fix this is the block chain, where every transaction has instantaneous settlement, in real time. Today the buyers of stock have to, at settlement, come up with cash while the sellers of stock can, not only sell fictitious shares, but have an indeterminate time to deliver what they are selling. IMO, blockchain can solve the issue, but what are the chances that those with the golden goose will accede to the change?
 
What do you guys think was happening with all that volume yesterday? That was buying. It simply didn't move the share price because market makers chose to absorb most of the volume, and they'll need to unwind that short position eventually. Thursday at 1pm seems a very logical time.
@TheTalkingMule
well, if you follow the OHLCV indicator, (a confirmatory money flow indicator) and it makes sense, which is questionable at the moment as i’m baffled.

of the 30.4 million shares traded monday, 65% sold at fractionally lower prices
and pushed the Accum/Dist line _down_ about 19.8 million

of the 18.4 million shares traded today, tuesday, 45% did the same, fractionally lower
and pushed the accum/dist line down another ~8 million

unless there is a severe error in my logic.

it’s like money is flowing out, yet it doesn’t seem to be real
Is this an example of “virtual shares” sold short? (FTD’s?)
(if today’s pattern repeats i have a hankering to DCA another 79 shares before thursday)
 
When I closed my investment fund and moved to Alaska in the mid-90s, my third-largest investor moved all those assets to Madoff. Before I wrote this last sentence, I never had felt the least bit culpable for the complete loss he - or rather, his widow - incurred, but I see one could posit that had I not done so, nor would he have moved those funds. Still, that thought likely will not lose me sleep.
Did he ask your advice when you closed your fund? And did you say Vanguard?