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Is this becoming public knowledge? FCA relies on selling boatloads of Fiat 500e to prevent having to pool with Tesla in the EU. Bad sales of 500e (because of bad reputation) may force FCA to come back to Tesla for exhaust credits.

The thing is, like all EV's, the Fiat 500e mostly competes with ICE vehicles. There simply aren't enough BEV's to go around. So, even a bad BEV can displace ICE sales.

Of course, this assumes the price is right and the emission credits help out here. An ICE manufacturer can sell an EV for less than the cost to produce in order to avoid the expense of emission credits that are necessary to sell their ICE vehicles. But there is a double-standard here because not once have I seen someone suggest those manufacturers should back out some of their profit due to the emissions credits they didn't have to buy! In effect, they are counting the value of the emissions credits earned by their EV sales which boosts the profit of their ICE sales when they report their quarterly earnings (or lack thereof).

So Tesla is cheating when credit sales boosts profits but ICE manufacturers are not cheating by using the credits earned from their EV sales to boost profitability of their gas sales. 🤪
 
The non structural Model 3/Y cells are already almost impossible to remove without damage, unlikely the structural 4680's would be easier.
Why not? A Model 3 today is made up of 4 massive modules with all sorts of adhesive and crap all over the tiny cells. This pic looks like you can just drop 800 Millet Lite cans into it and off you go.

What I thought I heard on Battery Day was a structural pack made up of big-ass 4680's encased in epoxy. This pic makes it look like they'll just drop em in a tightly machined metal hole and clamp down a giant pack lid.

Here I come walking up to the junkyard and can just pop open the pack, start pulling out 4680's and write the guy a check. That would be my dream scenario.
 
Teslatati - half hour ago: Petition for Tesla vehicle fire investigation rejected by the NHTSA

Excerpts:

...“The available data indicate that noncrash battery fires in Tesla vehicles are rare events. It is unlikely that an order concerning the notification and remedy of a safety-related defect would be issued due to any investigation opened as a result of granting this petition,” the agency noted...

..“NHTSA is authorized to issue an order requiring notification and remedy of a defect if the Agency’s investigation shows a defect in the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle that presents an unreasonable risk to safety. Given the absence of any incidents in the United States related to fast charging, and the absence of any such incidents globally since May 2019, it is unlikely that an order concerning the notification and remedy of a safety-related defect would be issued due to any investigation opened as a result of granting this petition. Therefore, upon full consideration of the information presented in the petition, and the potential risks to safety, the petition is denied,” the NHTSA wrote on its ODI resume.
I forget. Who started the $&@! petition anyway?
 
TMC Legal Scholars:

Does the following article basically confirm no way in hell that lawsuit is paying out 130 million?


--

Lucid groups thinking Tesla is dead because of this. Crazy nut jobs.

If it does end up paying out it presents a scary legal precedent that my feelz are worth more than literal bodily harm and/or death on behalf of an employer.
 
Why not? A Model 3 today is made up of 4 massive modules with all sorts of adhesive and crap all over the tiny cells. This pic looks like you can just drop 800 Millet Lite cans into it and off you go.

What I thought I heard on Battery Day was a structural pack made up of big-ass 4680's encased in epoxy. This pic makes it look like they'll just drop em in a tightly machined metal hole and clamp down a giant pack lid.

Here I come walking up to the junkyard and can just pop open the pack, start pulling out 4680's and write the guy a check. That would be my dream scenario.
Bad news for you:

"Lithium-ion battery packs should only be handled by qualified professionals at specifically designated facilities. The applicable rules and regulations for battery management vary by region and must always be followed."

 
Bad news for you:

"Lithium-ion battery packs should only be handled by qualified professionals at specifically designated facilities. The applicable rules and regulations for battery management vary by region and must always be followed."

Though you can already buy packs from wrecks at salvage yards.
 
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wd10j99ufor71.jpg


TSLA below 900 is stupid given Tesla relative strength today vs Feb 2021.

All those catalysts coming up as well.

Where the buyers at?!!

Added to position today because gifted red in a green macro environment.
 
If it does end up paying out it presents a scary legal precedent that my feelz are worth more than literal bodily harm and/or death on behalf of an employer.
Many of our members are retired and / or live outside of the USA and so I wonder if they realize how things are getting in the workplace in corporate USA. I've been in management in software engineering for over a decade. Prior to that I was a programmer for over a decade.

The company I currently work for has a presence in many states in the USA, including California. As such, all staff must undergo frequent diversity and conduct training that matches California's standards. This training is tracked and logged and it must be completed regularly for employment.

As a manager, if something inappropriate is said, I must take action and document all steps. The documentation is heavy because of the worry of justifying the actions taken, including potential termination, in case of a lawsuit.

Having been in this type of professional environment for years, I do not cuss at work and I'm careful /nervous to share any personal views at work, even something as simple as an opinion on a new movie. My friends have commented that I'm more reserved "manager mode" in my personal interactions, too.

Years prior, at a different company, I had an employee that did well on my team for years but then had an attitude shift and began causing issues. I spoke to HR and they decided to handle it directly and keep me mostly out of it (unusual but I think they were sensitive because employee was female and non-white). After several meetings with employee, HR terminated her employment. I found out when HR informed me. Afterwards, ex-employee filed a complaint with the state, named me and several other managers, and made some ridiculous claims. All my documents, emails, and records regarding her employment were frozen for 18 months and during that time I was told I may be called in for a deposition. In the end, the state dismissed it.

So, assuming Tesla followed the expected procedures with discipline, training, and documentation, what more should they have done?

My opinion is that this is an obvious money grab. I wonder if the jury was biased against Tesla and Elon Musk as a result of the constant media slant against them for the past decade. I know plenty of people that think Elon is just another spoiled rich kid that started with daddy's money. The FUD has consequences.

I also think it shows what kind of society we live in that cases like this are rewarded. Looking forward to being able to "retire" from management thanks to help from TSLA.
 
wd10j99ufor71.jpg


TSLA below 900 is stupid given Tesla relative strength today vs Feb 2021.

All those catalysts coming up as well.

Where the buyers at?!!

Added to position today because gifted red in a green macro environment.
I wouldn't use Feb 2021 as an indicator for anything. One of the junk company Ark bought went to 5 billion dollars in market cap and this company committed documented money laundry and had a quarterly revenue less than my household income.
 
TMC Legal Scholars:

Does the following article basically confirm no way in hell that lawsuit is paying out 130 million?



Most relevant paragraph from the link

A few years later, the U.S. Supreme Court again declined to establish "a bright-line ratio which a punitive damages award cannot exceed." However, the Supreme Court did suggest that "few awards exceeding a single-digit ratio between punitive and compensatory damages, to a significant degree, will satisfy due process." State Farm v Campbell, 548 U.S. 408 (2003). The Court added that to justify a higher ratio, a plaintiff would have to show that "a particularly egregious act has resulted in only a small amount of economic damages."



Bolded the 2 most important bits. Note the case cited the ratio of regular to punitive damage was nearly 100 to 1.

In this case 130 million of the 136.7 million total was punitive. making a ratio of 18.84 to 1. That does exceed single digit, but not nearly as much as the case cited.

That said it still exceeds the "single digit" ratio... and it's unlikely this rises to the standard suggested of particularly egregious to justify that ratio.

So for example a higher court reducing it to 9:1 (single digit per supreme court) would still be a roughly 67 million dollar total payout (60.3 punitive).

Realistically, there's not that big a difference between the two numbers for a company the size and financial strength of Tesla-(nor if the court picked 8:1 or 12:1 for that matter)... it's the story that'd be the harm to the company here.

And also the potential for further such cases-- including potentially the class action a few earlier links have mentioned-- where if as the sources suggest there's over 100 people wanting to sue on similar grounds you could be talking real money for such a verdict (plus the bad press of course).
 
3) In the battery day presentation it seemed that the process described was to literally adhere the cell cans to one another and use the result as the honeycomb portion of a pack sandwich to fit in to the casting void, as pictured here:
iu


iu


4) This shot from insideevs.com seems top match that:
iu


5) Other "leaked" pictures (at Electrek) appear, however, to show a metallic(?) honeycomb structure (itself a giant casting?) cells ostensibly fit in to, however it's hard to determine the authenticity of these leaked images:


It's unclear if the pack will really use the cell cans themselves as the stressed member, or if they will fit in to some sort of structural carrier. Interested in details anybody else ha ferreted out.
The cans are definitely stressed members and there is no metallic honeycomb structure. It's simply cans glued together. I see no other way to interpret this verbiage from Elon on 2020 Battery Day, plus the slides.

"[The structural pack] also allows us to pack cells more densely because we do not have intermediate structures in the battery pack...instead of just having a filler that is a flame retardant...we have a filler that is a structural adhesive as well as flame retardant. So, it effectively glues the cells to the top and bottom sheet, and this allows you to do shear transfer between the upper and lower sheet, just like if you have like a Formula 1 craft or like a racing boat, and you have carbon fiber face sheets and, say, aluminum honeycomb in between them, this gives incredible stiffness and it's really the way any super-fast thing works...we can actually use the steel shell case of the battery to transfer shear from the upper and lower face sheet which makes for an incredibly stiff structure, even stiffer than a regular car...I really think that long term, any cars that do not take this architecture will not be competitive."

1633473095477.png
 
Many of our members are retired and / or live outside of the USA and so I wonder if they realize how things are getting in the workplace in corporate USA. I've been in management in software engineering for over a decade. Prior to that I was a programmer for over a decade.

The company I currently work for has a presence in many states in the USA, including California. As such, all staff must undergo frequent diversity and conduct training that matches California's standards. This training is tracked and logged and it must be completed regularly for employment.

As a manager, if something inappropriate is said, I must take action and document all steps. The documentation is heavy because of the worry of justifying the actions taken, including potential termination, in case of a lawsuit.

Having been in this type of professional environment for years, I do not cuss at work and I'm careful /nervous to share any personal views at work, even something as simple as an opinion on a new movie. My friends have commented that I'm more reserved "manager mode" in my personal interactions, too.

Years prior, at a different company, I had an employee that did well on my team for years but then had an attitude shift and began causing issues. I spoke to HR and they decided to handle it directly and keep me mostly out of it (unusual but I think they were sensitive because employee was female and non-white). After several meetings with employee, HR terminated her employment. I found out when HR informed me. Afterwards, ex-employee filed a complaint with the state, named me and several other managers, and made some ridiculous claims. All my documents, emails, and records regarding her employment were frozen for 18 months and during that time I was told I may be called in for a deposition. In the end, the state dismissed it.

So, assuming Tesla followed the expected procedures with discipline, training, and documentation, what more should they have done?

My opinion is that this is an obvious money grab. I wonder if the jury was biased against Tesla and Elon Musk as a result of the constant media slant against them for the past decade. I know plenty of people that think Elon is just another spoiled rich kid that started with daddy's money. The FUD has consequences.

I also think it shows what kind of society we live in that cases like this are rewarded. Looking forward to being able to "retire" from management thanks to help from TSLA.

Frankly that sounds a horrific environment to work under. I understand you need a safe good working env for all but wow.