Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[mongo]

This and that he is likely selling 10% of existing position AND selling to cover taxes in his new shares.

The recent option execution was a preplanned 10b5-1, so the sell new to cover taxes action was likely locked in. Due to the plan, it may not have been possible to sell those exact shares on Tuesday or Wednesday.

With those shares now rolled in to the Trust, we have no visibility on which lots were sold on Thursday nor going forward.

 

[Johan]

So we know Elon planned to sell a chunk of shares (exercise options, then sell...whatever he technically did) a couple of months ago, so what was the point of his poll on Twitter aside from gauging public sentiment about what he should do with his shares? Tipping off that he was about to sell some shares, so his informal poll suggesting he might sell would blunt the news of the regulatory filings where people are "surprised" Elon sold off millions of shares of Tesla, where a lot more downward pressure on the stock price may have occurred?

And does any of this run afoul of his agreement with the SEC? I honestly don't care too much either way, but I just want to understand the logic in what he's done lately.

I think you're on the right track here; My view is he knew he was going to sell, wanted to couple his selling with a bit of a publicity stunt in where he could 1) show that he does intend to pay his taxes in the way he's supposed to when he realizes gains 2) that taxing unrealized gains is a silly idea and 3) he could take dig (for some reason) at Biden - that was what the "abide" and "abide(n)" was about in my opinion.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Elon sold some more shares yesterday:

SEC FORM 4

SEC FORM 4

Elon sold just 691,836 shares on Thu, Nov 11, 2021, for a total of $744.51M. That's 3.09% of TSLA's total volume on NASDAQ yessterday. So this is peanuts with a side of quiche...

EDIT: H/T to @mongo for the correction (missed a page of the two Forms 4)

Instant knee-jerk overraction to the news in the Pre-market... as you'd expect from pearl-clutching shortzes.

Cheers!

 

[mongo]

Elon sold just 104,198 shares on Thu, Nov 11, 2021, for a total of $114.43M.

So it's peanuts with a side of quiche.

Instant knee-jerk overraction to the news in the Pre-market... as you'd expect from pearl-clutching shortzes.

View attachment 732270

Cheers!

Huh?
It was 639,737 shares....

Edit:

Elon sold just 691,836 shares on Thu, Nov 11, 2021, for a total of $114.43M. That's 3.09% of TSLA's total volume on NASDAQ yessterday. So this is peanuts with a side of quiche...

EDIT: H/T to @mongo for the correction (missed a page of the two Forms 4)

???
First sale + total after first sale - total after last sale
2000 +168,123,419 - 167,485,682 = 639,737
Are you going off Wednesday's end number? The options were moved to the trust account.

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

Part of Elon’s reason for selling is to have a high tax bill to show he pays his fair share in taxes. By selling low cost basis shares, he can pay the highest amount in taxes while still retaining as many shares for control of Tesla as possible.

 

[SmokyPeat]

I think you're on the right track here; My view is he knew he was going to sell, wanted to couple his selling with a bit of a publicity stunt in where he could 1) show that he does intend to pay his taxes in the way he's supposed to when he realizes gains 2) that taxing unrealized gains is a silly idea and 3) he could take dig (for some reason) at Biden - that was what the "abide" and "abide(n)" was about in my opinion.

Pretty subtle dig, if you ask me. If a dig at all. Biden is going to have to acknowledge Tesla's and SpaceX's existence at some point. The sooner, the better.

 

[winfield100]

on 11/11 sold 630,787 639,787 shares for $687,297,093.55 (From the form into excel)

​

 

[tivoboy]

I couldn't be more confused after reading this.

So you're saying

1. You have FSD beta
2. You've personally experienced how FSD beta operates at the same location of the NHTSA complaint or
3. You're describing general deficiencies of FSD beta that you've experienced personally that you feel are relevant to this case
4. And this somehow ends in a getting t-boned (which the complaint didn't say?)
5. Then you end with a winky face, which is internet speak for something like /s

Did I say I couldn't be more confused?

1, 3, 5

 

[elasalle]

Part of Elon’s reason for selling is to have a high tax bill to show he pays his fair share in taxes. By selling low cost basis shares, he can pay the highest amount in taxes while still retaining as many shares for control of Tesla as possible.

So when all done, EM will have paid one of the highest tax returns.

Whats Robert Reich gonna tweet about next?
WFB still has not disclosed how they spend their monies

 

[winfield100]

Part of Elon’s reason for selling is to have a high tax bill to show he pays his fair share in taxes. By selling low cost basis shares, he can pay the highest amount in taxes while still retaining as many shares for control of Tesla as possible.

and increase the number of shares he has by around 12,300,000+ while paying around $15 Billion in taxes win-win

 

[Silent Ludicrosy]

and increase the number of shares he has by around 12,300,000+ while paying around $15 Billion in taxes win-win

If he can get his tax bill up to $25 billion, he can fund NASA for 2022.

 

[FS_FRA]

Eerily quiet trading this morning.

 

[ZachF]

Just FYI, if there is an increase in the capital gains taxe rates for next year, it would not be out of the question for the market as a whole to drop at the end of the year as selling is pulled forward at a lower tax basis. Tesla could go down with it.

 

[ZachF]

If he can get his tax bill up to $25 billion, he can fund NASA for 2022.

Considering the total Federal tax rate is around 17% of GDP, Elon will be sending more taxes to the federal government than entire states (like NH) with GDPs under ~$90 billion!

Elon can tell Bernie that he paid ~3x more in taxes than the entire state he represents.

 

[mongo]

on 11/11 sold 630,787 shares for $687,297,093.55 (From the form into excel)

​

Typo somewhere..
First sale + total after first sale - total after last sale
2000 +168,123,419 - 167,485,682 = 639,737

 

[tivoboy]

Just FYI, if there is an increase in the capital gains taxe rates for next year, it would not be out of the question for the market as a whole to drop at the end of the year as selling is pulled forward at a lower tax basis. Tesla could go down with it.

Any change that would occur would be back dated back to July of this year, 2021. At least that is how they drafted the cap gains tax changes proposed. So, IF the changes occur (which I put below 50% chance) then anyone who sells from now till year end is just uninformed or trying to make a point. It wouldn’t make a difference.

 

[DFibRL8R]

Just FYI, if there is an increase in the capital gains taxe rates for next year, it would not be out of the question for the market as a whole to drop at the end of the year as selling is pulled forward at a lower tax basis. Tesla could go down with it.

I haven't seen any clear indicators that an increase is in the works besides the general tax ideology of the current party (barely) in power. I would be surprised if this got announced before year's-end which could trigger a market drop as you suggest. That said, the current long term CG rate is at historic lows and has nowhere to go but up eventually.

 

[UCF3]

Any change that would occur would be back dated back to July of this year, 2021. At least that is how they drafted the cap gains tax changes proposed. So, IF the changes occur (which I put below 50% chance) then anyone who sells from now till year end is just uninformed or trying to make a point. It wouldn’t make a difference.

High Net-worth Individuals Would Feel the Effects of the Proposed Capital Gains Tax Increase - Anders CPA

Pending legislation would mean a significant increase in capital gains tax for high net-worth individuals. Here's what you can expect to see.

anderscpa.com

September 13th. Which is weird because wasn’t EM’s plan to sell shares this week adopted on September 14th? Maybe they couldn’t get it filed in time. The shares sold tied to that adoption will cost him an extra 8.8% in capital gains tax if that bill is passed

 

[Huskyf]

Why TSLA is soo red all macros are positives actually???

 

[Big Time]

Mb once elon vests all of his tranches he can switch to hourly after that......... Hope he gets this over with smoothly and soon