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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
cliff harris
Member
Tesla: Charlie Munger Has A Point About BYD (NASDAQ:TSLA)
Charlie Munger recently suggested that BYD Company Limited is so far ahead of Tesla in China that it is laughable. Click here for our take on BYDDF vs. TSLA.seekingalpha.com
Yeah, I know it's SA, but this piece seems to be less than 50% BS, so much better than most.
When asked recently why he preferred BYD to Tesla, Charlie Munger said:
This piece goes into what Charlie might be thinking, and how it might be justified. Worth a look.
This is nonsensical. is charlie really that deluded? or that determined to hate Tesla? The fact that one company raises prices and the other cuts them? Thats kindergarten analysis.
Not sure why he cant see this but from a shareholder POV its PROFIT that matters, not vehicle prices. If the value of a company was based on vehicle price without regards to profitability we would all be selling our kidneys to buy some Lucid stock...
Charlie is simply talking up his book, like he always does. In the past Charlie has done this about a company while concurrently buying a competing stock, and then once their done accumulating they totally switch the talking points up.
The reality is BYD competes mostly in hybrids and low end EV's while Tesla largely ignores those markets. At least until the Gen 3 Tesla comes out, and THEN we'll see BYD and Tesla competing on the same field.
CYBRTRK420
Member
Everybody calm down… We are seeing a Model Y, clearly.
Here is a pic I found on my phone from a somewhat similar angle. Camera / Zoom distortion just makes it look shorter…
Here is a pic I found on my phone from a somewhat similar angle. Camera / Zoom distortion just makes it look shorter…
I hear your comment about profit.
I will note that there is such a thing as “pricing power”. Pricing power separates (a bit) a product from a commodity. Charlie (and many traditional investment grey beards) avoid investing in companies that lack pricing power. That includes my experience.
EM has a manufacturing vision based on ever expanding volume resulting in pricing being a critical tool for maintaining volume growth. Risky.
I see his plan but struggle with the risk since I have zero visibility to what he has cooking in the lab. Grid storage is not enough IMO.
The clarity coming from investor day is necessary if the more generalized business plan includes embracing commodity pricing as a delivery tool in achieving scale. It is a valid approach but has dependencies IMO.
My estimation is that investor day must reveal specifics and commitments or will be waived off by the conservative investors (Munger et al). If he delivers then he mitigates the risks of commodity pricing and investor dollars come in. YMMV
The issue here is that Tesla's prices are transparent. Other manufacturers work through dealers where every car is sold at a different price, so it appears that the price from the manufacturer is stable when in reality it changes just as often, or more often, than Tesla's price. (there are some rare exceptions)
Artful Dodger
"Neko no me"
Analysts est'd YoY PCE was 4.4%.
Fed-favored PCE gauge shows 12-month inflation rate edging upward to 5.4%
www.marketwatch.com
Fed-favored PCE gauge shows 12-month inflation rate edging upward to 5.4%
Inflation jumps again, PCE shows, and stays stubbornly high at over 5%
The cost of U.S. goods and services jumped 0.6% in January --- the biggest increase since last summer --- in another sign of stubbornly high inflation.
www.marketwatch.com
Us Jan Overall Pce Price Index +0.6 Pct (+0.6194) Vs Dec +0.2 Pct (Prev +0.1 Pct)
08:32:08
Us Jan Core Pce Price Index +0.6 Pct (+0.5711; Consensus +0.4 Pct) Vs Dec +0.4 Pct (Prev +0.3 Pct)
Us Jan Year-Over Year Pce Price Index +5.4 Pct Vs Dec +5.3 Pct (Prev +5.0 Pct); Core +4.7 Pct (Consensus +4.3 Pct) Vs Dec +4.6 Pct (Prev +4.4 Pct)
Us Jan Personal Saving Rate 4.7 Pct Vs Dec 4.5 Pct
08:32:21
Us Jan Personal Spending +1.8 Pct (Consensus +1.3 Pct) Vs Dec -0.1 Pct (Prev -0.2 Pct)
Us Jan Real Consumer Spending +1.1 Pct Vs Dec -0.3 Pct (Prev -0.3 Pct)
Sourced from twitter
Explains why TSLA fell $3.5 with 10 minutes during premarket from 199 to 195.5
08:32:08
Us Jan Core Pce Price Index +0.6 Pct (+0.5711; Consensus +0.4 Pct) Vs Dec +0.4 Pct (Prev +0.3 Pct)
Us Jan Year-Over Year Pce Price Index +5.4 Pct Vs Dec +5.3 Pct (Prev +5.0 Pct); Core +4.7 Pct (Consensus +4.3 Pct) Vs Dec +4.6 Pct (Prev +4.4 Pct)
Us Jan Personal Saving Rate 4.7 Pct Vs Dec 4.5 Pct
08:32:21
Us Jan Personal Spending +1.8 Pct (Consensus +1.3 Pct) Vs Dec -0.1 Pct (Prev -0.2 Pct)
Us Jan Real Consumer Spending +1.1 Pct Vs Dec -0.3 Pct (Prev -0.3 Pct)
Sourced from twitter
Explains why TSLA fell $3.5 with 10 minutes during premarket from 199 to 195.5
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To me it sounds like he wants to sell his BYD stock to retail.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Especially you, as history has proven time and time again.
This is what baseless bloviating based on nothing looks like. When bears do the same thing on the downside they get ridiculed, and rightly so. It's no better when it's done in the opposite direction.
I hope you're right but I don't see how someone could view this as a breakout ready to happen. I see the share price, in a bear market, coming up to the 200-day and the upper edge of the downward trend line. That tells me retracement is most likely over the next few weeks. Additionally we have a gravity well at about 150. We would need something to overpower these technicals, and if past history is any indication of the future, Investor Day is more likely to trigger a downside slide.
I disagreed with you primarily because you appear to ignore manufacturing efficiency apart from traditional volume efficiency. You also ignore the process efficiency from design and manufacturing processes that few OEM's consider at all, such as gigapress, octovalve, vehicle operating system and the factory OS. Further you ignore distribution system efficiency in sales, delivery and support. All those are responsible for a major part of the industry-leading Gross Margins.
Your fundamental error is the same one Charlie Munger is making; you do not understand the difference between 'commodity' and 'product'. Even in commodities production and distribution system efficiencies are important though, thus, for example, Saudi Arabia has vastly more pricing power than does, say, Russia, a very high cost producer.Mr. Munger knew of such issues once, but now he thinks a car is a car, generics all! You're seemingly seduced by the successes of past decades and ignoring value today and in the future,
FWIW, I admire BYD. They're no Tesla.
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"We have this enormity of data that's collected in space. What's the best way to be able to coordinate that information?" asked Parikh, who is also deputy assistant to President Joe Biden.
"What's the best way to be able to make that information accessible—not just to the climate researchers, which are incredibly important people around the world—but also state and local governments, to communities, to urban planners. so they can actually make that information accessible and usable," he added.
www.space.com
"What's the best way to be able to make that information accessible—not just to the climate researchers, which are incredibly important people around the world—but also state and local governments, to communities, to urban planners. so they can actually make that information accessible and usable," he added.
SpaceX, Amazon, US space industry to talk climate change with VP Kamala Harris (exclusive)
Climate change will be raised with VP Kamala Harris after the debut meeting of a group advising the Harris-run National Space Council on government policy direction.
www.space.com
larmor
Active Member
Maybe or maybe TSLA is down on Mondays and Fridays, and at 9 am to 10am EST on other days, I can set my clock to this schedule.Inflation data came in hot this morning and the market started tanking immediately. We might have a down day on our hands!
Or one could consider that what is transparent is demand
FastEddieB
Member
Oh that's right.... where will they put the CB Antenna? (I used to install these, lol)
Kidding aside, what software is Tesla missing in the Semi?
"Notably absent, though, is a dedicated software suite for Frito-Lay drivers, such as what Rivian offers for Amazon drivers in its EDV Prime van, and BrightDrop offers on the Zevo 600 for FedEx drivers. Instead, the drivers use the Tesla app on their phones as a key and rely on a PepsiCo-supplied portable tablet kept in the storage cubby on the cabin's right side..."
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
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