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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Elon said he think there will be more bots than humans. Let's do the math. There are 8B humans on the planet. Let's say Elon is right and there is a need for 10B bots. Tesla takes a 50% market for these. Each bot has a lifespan of 10years. So 500M Tesla bots/year. If Tesla sells these for $20k at 10k profit, that's $5T/year in profit. Let's say they take a $100/monthly subscription for the software, that's $6T/year in subscription at ~100% profit..

So yeah, if Elon is right, then bots could be an order of magnitude or two larger than cars and energy...
Yes, but first we need to get FSD working. Which is supposed to be a 5x increase in the value of the car. (Or something along those lines).

Then we worry about Optimus.

And in the mean time, I’m loving that Tesla is working absurdly hard to make massive amounts of profits as they make massive numbers of vehicles right now… just in case those two order of magnitude growth curves don’t work out.
 
So most obvious guess that the vehicle circled in red in the image below is a van. Anyone have any other guesses?

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Since Elon mentioned vans previously and that’s the biggest segment they’ve talked about, I think van makes sense.

But from a consumer perspective, there is a lot of demand for large SUVs which are sort of like crappy, inefficient vans. So it might be something more SUV like?
 
Since Elon mentioned vans previously and that’s the biggest segment they’ve talked about, I think van makes sense.

But from a consumer perspective, there is a lot of demand for large SUVs which are sort of like crappy, inefficient vans. So it might be something more SUV like?

It sure looks like a van shape (tall, with a long flat roof line). Would be the obvious light vehicle segment left to fill alongside the smaller/cheaper model Hidden under the “700m” category label.
 
To quickly summarize all the NEW info we got from investor day: Giga Mexico, 48v, bidirectional charging, radical new mfg process, wireless charging, new energy products hint, van hint, 3rd gen not exclusively robotaxi confirmation, 50 GWh refining capacity, 0 rare earth drivetrain.

Saved you 4 hours. 😉
I thought the investor presentation was great. I really enjoyed the 3+ hours of detailed information of how they are going to get to 1TWh energy storage and 20M cars by 2030.

It was super bullish and makes me way more confident that they will get there, than I was before the presentation.

Those who are disappointed, I think allow themselves to get carried away through many hours of YouTube content that needs to get filled. I love the Tesla YouTubers, but having given up their jobs, they need daily content, and they are in danger of becoming like the mainstream media, purely for selfish reasons (they need new news daily).

Rob Maurer is the best at sticking to the facts, as is Steven Mark Ryan, who repeats the same messages every day in a slightly different way.
 
I thought the investor presentation was great. I really enjoyed the 3+ hours of detailed information of how they are going to get to 1TB energy storage and 20M cars by 2030.

It was super bullish and makes me way more confident that they will get there, than I was before the presentation.

Those who are disappointed, I think allow themselves to get carried away through many hours of YouTube content that needs to get filled. I love the Tesla YouTubers, but having given up their jobs, they need daily content, and they are in danger of becoming like the mainstream media, purely for selfish reasons (they need new news daily).

Rob Maurer is the best at sticking to the facts, as is Steven Mark Ryan, who repeats the same messages every day in a slightly different way.
This. People who thought this was boring, I really can't understand them. This was a very deep insight in how Tesla works over several departments and how they will work in the future. If this didn't tease your interest, then maybe you should question why you follow Tesla as a company.
 
It sure looks like a van shape (tall, with a long flat roof line). Would be the obvious light vehicle segment left to fill alongside the smaller/cheaper model Hidden under the “700m” category label.
So the “700m”, is that the number of vehicles of that type in the global fleet by 2030? What is that number?
 
Did I get it right? "We reduced the drive unit costs to about $1000". I did hear that at
The complete DU for $1000? Or does it mean 'reduced by'?

OT in comparison:
I'm in the process of converting a classic car to electric on my own. The DU (just motor plus inverter) I'm going to use has about 80 kW peak and cost me $5000. Sure, it's a retail price, but Tesla would roll over this market with ease. It would make a conversion interesting for much more people that can't afford a new car or even want to reduce their foodprint by using upgraded existing ones. Something for the mission, or not?
 
Did I get it right? "We reduced the drive unit costs to about $1000". I did hear that at
The complete DU for $1000? Or does it mean 'reduced by'?

OT in comparison:
I'm in the process of converting a classic car to electric on my own. The DU (just motor plus inverter) I'm going to use has about 80 kW peak and cost me $5000. Sure, it's a retail price, but Tesla would roll over this market with ease. It would make a conversion interesting for much more people that can't afford a new car or even want to reduce their foodprint by using upgraded existing ones. Something for the mission, or not?
I think the slide said cost more or less 1000 dollar.
 
It was interesting, lots of very talented people. I admire what Tesla has accomplished, enough that I ordered one. But there weren’t many/any specific new products or services. And listening to Master Plan 3, I was reminded they haven‘t delivered on “Master Plan Part Deux” from 2016 yet…
Musk’s ambitious Master Plan Part Deux was published in 2016, and has not been completely fulfilled. It included four main objectives:
  • “Create stunning solar roofs with seamlessly integrated battery storage”
  • “Expand the electric vehicle product line to address all major segments”
  • “Develop a self-driving capability that is 10X safer than manual via massive fleet learning”
  • “Enable your car to make money for you when you aren’t using it”.
 
- Gorgeous team breadth and depth. Hired for ability to get it done within a well-aligned culture, not any other criteria. (Well, one exception).

- The overall scale of the global energy transformation was very much in line with the same models I've built, giving much the same results. (I put more of my results on the Resource Angle thread) : The Resource Angle . Lovely to see that Tesla is still aiming for it. Nice to see that they come up with the same financial answer I do, i.e. winding down the fossil economy ongoing costs pays for the buildout of the renewable economy.

- (Anybody fancy a 10-year short on fossils ? 20-year ? How are pension funds feeling ? They have no excuse for not paying attention to this stuff now)

- Musk clearly doesn't consider V2G to be very beneficial. I think the same way. Nevertheless grudgingly it will get done, one day, perhaps. Almost certainly not as a retrofit. Most likely only for locations with a Tesla Powerwall as a minimum.

- Look at the bulk of that inductive charging pad in the sneak preview shot (the one alongside the shot of the Tesla cafe, with the red car in a garage). That is a clear signal that at present this could only be considered as a unidirectional link. Again another reason not to rush on V2G.

- PMG with sufficient torque that is not rare earth neos ? Tell me more. Something was in that slot. Is this the return of Ferrite2 ? Or what ?

- Gen 3 will be a 2/Z at least, because it is clear that it will have multiple models off the common manufacturing platform. Loads of good stuff about the design target for Gen 3. Perfect.

- They can't release a 2/Z now because they are cell-supply-limited. The extra 4680 capacity coming out of the Austin lines has to feed the progressive ramp of the Y there. But phew at least they are now on DBE, confirmed. The 4680 ramp is proceeding, not great, but not trainwreck bad either. The extra LFP coming out of China needs to feed the ramp of Berlin. And by late 2023 they need sufficient additional 4680 capacity to feed the ramp of the Cybertruck. And the ramp of Sparks will feed the Semi ramp, and the Megapack ramp (because otherwise they are nolonger a serious player in utility, and they've got to stay with the market). So there is no spare cell capacity for a 2/Z. So this year 2023 they are cell-constrained, hence only the blurt target of 2m. It is still all about cells.

- Cell material doesn't seem to be a huge concern. Enough of a concern that they are reaching through and doing work. But under control. Phew.

- It is possible that Monterrey will be the first factory to go with 2/Z, at least that's my guess. That gives 18-months from now for the cell supply to get just about enough ahead of the coming demand so as to allow for initial production of the 2/Z. I suspect we'll get leaks starting in about 6-months, then perhaps a reveal in 9-months. So first production during Q4-2024.

- Is paint control now good enough to paint separately and still get a match ? Or are they going unpainted ? (@unk45 ?)

- Tesla Energy as a service will, like insurance, be a very slow and progressive and hugely patchy build out. For much the same reasons - regulatory compliance and an abundance of caution.

- Stationary storage is going to be big, but I don't need convincing on the scale aspect of that. However no special sauce observed that is not available in the other products in the market. So no reason to think margins will be anything particularly special. Demand far greater than supply - again I don't need telling that - everyone outside USA who wants a Powerwall is well aware.

I've given up and gone SolarEdge (in fact we mount 30kWh today, hopefully and go live. The corresponding solar went live a couple months ago but we've all been too busy to do the storage until today). So Tesla will in due course need to find a way to play nicely with my SolarEdge storage or I ain't going to be a Tesla Energy customer. (So Daily Energy News will likely be late today, prob this evening).

- Lots of good info on Supercharger network. I need to mine the data on those slides a bit to get some calibration into my models.

- Relentless focus on driving down cost whilst increasing performance, both internally and externally. I love it. Means FCF pays for the build-out.

- FSD still on track, but no timeline. No HW4 mention, or did I miss that ?

- Optimus bot making seemingly good progress. That will indeed be very big one day.

- WTF was that lady on about.

- Now time for me to go install some storage :)
 
It was interesting, lots of very talented people. I admire what Tesla has accomplished, enough that I ordered one. But there weren’t many/any specific new products or services. And listening to Master Plan 3, I was reminded they haven‘t delivered on “Master Plan Part Deux” from 2016 yet…
At least to me it seems like they are close on this one.
  • “Develop a self-driving capability that is 10X safer than manual via massive fleet learning”
They are lacking volumes on this one, but still.. Not a miss.
  • “Create stunning solar roofs with seamlessly integrated battery storage”

The track record of Tesla and Elon is quite good, event though they do miss their timeline from time to time.
 

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Most of you are all way too focused on the AH move.

It means nothing. Ignore. They’re trying to protect $200 for Friday, pushing down in the AH to make the event feel like a disappointment.

If you were disappointed by last night, your expectations were not set properly. It was NOT a product reveal. And a product reveal doesn’t instantly make a company worth 10% more anyway.

What was presented last night is how Tesla will continue to lead everyone else in revenue and margins and grow into easily the #1 market cap company in the world.

If you want to make a quick buck, go buy some AMC when WallStreetBets says so.

If you want a virtually guaranteed path to significant wealth, buy TSLA, sit on it, and stop fretting about the AH move. Wall St is too dumb and too shortsighted to understand what was presented last night.

Or buy LCID, because surely they’re going to destroy Tesla.

Or Ford, who is clearly innovating and vertically integrating faster than Tesla.

I guarantee when the next Munro Live video comes out he’s going to literally declare his love for Tesla and propose to it right onscreen.