Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[GhostSkater]

Hey Elon and Roadster 2 team, here are your goals, now get to work

 

[WMTribe90]

Thank you for the full quotes. Therein lies the problem.

TESLA IS NOT A 100% PRIVATELY-OWNED COMPANY. On the contrary, it is a PUBLIC COMPANY. WE own it.

Elon has a fiduciary responsibility to US and what he says and does matters to the company that WE own.

His public statements have consequences and there is a large (and growing!) subset of the TAM that will NOT buy any Tesla product because of Elon's unhinged comments. We know of at least one couple that have sold their Model Y Performance and will not buy another Tesla (or solar, or HVAC, etc.) as a result.

Elon's comments are many, but some of the most recent/damaging come to mind:

1. House Speaker Pelosi's husband attacked by a random whack job, yet Elon writes/alludes that " . . . there's more to the story." [paraphrased]

Elon turns out to be 100% incorrect.

2. Tech millionaire knifed to death by someone he knew in San Francisco.

Elon posts comments/assumptions that turn out to be 100% incorrect.

3. Elon Musk tweets, then deletes, meme comparing Trudeau to Hitler

4. Too many to count re: COVID being a minor concern . . . .

And more fallout from just last night's interview:

Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday doubled down on his assertion there is “no proof” the swastika-tattooed man suspected of killing eight people at an Allen, Texas, mall earlier this month was a white supremacist.

“I think it was incorrectly ascribed to be a white supremacist action,” Musk told CNBC’s David Faber. “I’m saying that I thought ascribing it to white supremacy was bullshit.”

The suspect, Mauricio Garcia, was shot dead by police during the attack in which he reportedly wore a patch with the text “RWDS” ― short for “Right Wing Death Squad.”
“We do know that he had neo-Nazi ideation. He had patches. He had tattoos. Even his signature verified that,” said Hank Sibley, North Texas regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Garcia also allegedly posted neo-Nazi content online. [truncated]

Source:

Elon Musk Cooks Up Unbelievable Claim About Swastika-Tattooed Texas Mall Shooter

Twitter’s billionaire owner also defended his attacks on investor and Jewish Holocaust survivor George Soros, calling himself a “pro-Semite, if anything.”

www.huffpost.com

WHAT is Elon's major malfunction here? WHAT if the value of wading into the motivations of a mass murderer?!? How can someone so brilliant be so simultaneously stupid and inept?

In closing, Elon needlessly HARMS THE MISSION with his stream-of-consciousness commentary, much of which is just plain factually incorrect and juvenile. He continues to shoot himself (and us) in the foot.

TESLA is a PUBLIC company, not his personal play thing.

If he doesn't like it, too bad--perhaps he can take TSLA private and just piss off his private shareholders, but that ship has long since sailed . . . .

Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period.

p.s. We're 100% "in" with THE MISSION. We've been TSLA, and Tesla, owners since 2013, but it's enough. At any other company, with any other BoD, Elon would have been fired long ago.

Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now.

Amen.

What is there to possibly gain by defending this shooter. Is Elon arguing that assigning this mass-murderer a white nationalist label is somehow unfair and doing repetitional harm to white nationalists? Is this the group you want to be publicly sticking your neck out for to defend (even if he was correct in his assertion, which he is not)?

To your list, I’ll add his juvenile feud and Twitter exchanges with NPR, at one point tweeting “you suck”.

Freedom of Speech includes the freedom to not say every dumb or ignorant thing that pops into your head. No one is denying Elon has the right to say dumb things. Many are questioning why he feels the need to publicly damage the company, the brand, and ultimately the stock price. His I don’t care response is infuriating and does show a lack of compassion and understanding of how his actions impact retail investors. Even if we are ultimately made whole in the long run, there has still been a tremendous amount of needless stress and anxiety put onto long-term holders.

Simply saying you have the right to sell your shares any time does not absolve Elon of his fiduciary responsibility to share holders. It would be more accurate and fair to say that if Elon doesn’t accept the responsibilities of being the CEO of a public company (i.e., behave in a moral, ethical, and rational manner) than he should step down as CEO to pursue his passion for being an online influencer or political pundit.

 

[bkp_duke]

Wow, missing the point entirely.

Public company C-suite executives have a fiduciary responsibility.

Many, like us, make MAJOR investments based on expectations of proper behavior . . . and when unhinged commentary damages our investment, AND THE MISSION, it's grounds for discussion here, and action by the BoD.

This is what can happen when CEO's behave irresponsibly:

Estimated Tesla Order Backlog Weakened Again: 68,000 On April 30, 2023

The estimated Tesla global EV order backlog once again decreased in the second half of April and it seems that reached the lowest level since January 2022.

insideevs.com

You seem to want to blame Elon for everything financial, yet are completely ignoring the macros.

To take your backlog example and counterpoint:
Lucid - zero backlog now, accumulating cars on lots
Rivian - down from 2 years to 2 weeks backlog
Ford F150 Lightning - down from 1 year backlog to . . . can buy one on the lot today for MSRP
Ford MachE - 120+ days of inventory sitting on lots (and the margin on this one last quarter was MINUS 102%!!!)

I could go on and on. The fact is that macros are in the toilet, and loan rates greatly influence auto sales. Tesla is the only car company to continue to GROW SALES in this environment.

And the mission statement of the company is to Accelerate the Transition to Sustainable Energy. We've all known this, and we all KNOW that it takes a back seat to profits. This is not a newsflash.

 

[FreqFlyer]

So my opinion on the meeting and interview last night was that both were very good, BUT I was hoping for at least a couple juicy new tidbits of information. It was all mostly just reviewing things we already knew.

I would have loved something like:

- Some pics and/or info on the Highland M3.
- Some new details on the CT, we still don't have official pics of the interior or frunk.
- A timeline on when they plan to break ground in Mexico.
- A better update on 4680 production progress.

The best takeaways IMHO were the Optimus footage and Elon's reveal to dabble in some advertising, which ironically only occurred because Meet Kevin got the chance to ask about it directly and Elon liked the way he phrased the question. If Kevin hadn't been there we wouldn't have gotten even that.

I was too optimistic.

Oh, you were surprised too there was not a stockholder there not interested in the future?

 

[FreqFlyer]

What I'd like to know is how did those bots get their Cybertrucks before the rest of us? Not fair!

View attachment 938545

Or that we have never seen so many Cybertrucks at once.

 

[insaneoctane]

I am definitely grateful for all the work Elon and Tesla team has done. But it’s also “easy” for me as an investor because I got into TSLA in 2016. For people that first bought in these last couple years with a significant amount of money, it would be tough to hear that the CEO doesn’t care about losing money due to his tweeting. It’s one thing to say he doesn’t care about losing money short term in regards to the mission of putting more cars on the road. It’s another to have it due to just tweeting random things.

Elon definitely has freedom of speech, as he should… like anyone else. But he doesn’t have freedom from consequences. We certainly don’t.

I also find that his tweets do not always explain his viewpoint very well. It’s during these longer form interviews where he explains himself and makes a bit more sense on what he’s trying to say. He just should be a bit more thoughtful of explaining himself better in tweets. Make use of the long tweet option if he’s going to say something that could easily be misconstrued. I’m not a fan of easily avoidable unforced errors.

But wasn't Elon "tweeting" in 2016 also?

 

[Cosmacelf]

Some of us here lost seven- and eight-figures in TSLA over the past year, and this IS the investor's forum, right? For some of us, that's real money. It was an avoidable loss, mostly due to self-induced errors by our CEO . . . ..

And you will continue losing money if that’s your understanding of TSLA stock price. TSLA is down due to macro events. All growth stocks are down. Indeed it has outperformed the Nasdaq over the past several years (depends on your starting date). It certainly isn’t down due to Elons tweets.

Please take a moment to review another's post early this morning:

It’s noticeable the difference in how many quality TMC posters that were here for last years annual meeting who are no longer here for this years meeting. The exodus was gradual, but now striking.

The reason they left is because is low quality posts and noise. The last high quality poster who left explicitly stated that was the reason for leaving. If you want to stay abreast of actual TSLA news, just follow Sawyer Merit on Twitter. I’m actually not sure what the point of this particular forum is anymore.

 

[Nocturnal]

Off topic subforum? Really?

This with TSLA down ~75% a few months ago, AND after quoting a massively important, hour-long interview with CNBC's David Faber on the occasion of Tesla's Annual Shareholder meeting . . . .

Some of us here lost seven- and eight-figures in TSLA over the past year, and this IS the investor's forum, right? For some of us, that's real money. It was an avoidable loss, mostly due to self-induced errors by our CEO . . . ..

Elon was very clear, he cares about his ability to discuss politics more than shareholders. That won't change. You also won't convince the people who think that everything he does is 3D chess.

So arguing about it is pretty pointless. If you think it's a negative like I do, it's just something to factor in as a headwind/risk. The only thing that matters is if it's still attractive to invest in TSLA. I believe it is. (I'm in the mid 7 figure loss club myself FWIW)

Sorry mods, but I think this has to be said. Understand if it's deleted or whatever. IMO it's better to move on from and process the topic than to bottle it up.

 

[gene]

So you have lost seven or eight figures (on paper), which I don't believe, and now everyone needs to read your whining? Sub-forum or other site completely should do. Again, membership here is not mandatory.

About TSLA Pilot losing in the 7 figures, I totally believe him. I lost since Twitter acquisition ( Twitter and rants may not be the reason, but the timing is there) in the 7 figures more times over than I want to even think about.

 

[2daMoon]

Onto another topic, or, revisiting one from yesterday, there was speculation that Elon's mentioning of two new products might include Cybertruck or Highland Model 3.

His words indicated to me that both of these "new" products "will" be introduced at some future date. So, maybe Highland is one, as it was most likely the silhouette being shown. I don't believe the Cybertruck is one of these because it has already been introduced.

The way I see it the Model 3 Highland isn't a new product either, it is just an evolution of an existing product. It seems to me that it could be entirely possible that there are two new products coming out of GigaMexico, or, one each products out of two factories.

Looking forward to finding out what these products will actually be, but, it seems to me that the current Tesla strategy is different than before. They are no longer showing what is coming long before production starts, instead, they are getting better at keeping their cards close to their chest by teasing us in a way that is designed to keep the mystery alive.

This is a brilliant approach as it keeps everyone speculating about what these new products could be. Tesla then stays in the conversation without the burden of disappointment from knowing what is coming and being frustrated with the subsequent wait for production ramp to begin.

 

[madodel]

And you will continue losing money if that’s your understanding of TSLA stock price. TSLA is down due to macro events. All growth stocks are down. Indeed it has outperformed the Nasdaq over the past several years (depends on your starting date). It certainly isn’t down due to Elons tweets.

It is both. I was just at an EV event (Drive Electric in NJ) lots of folks there including a few other Teslas. So many people said they won't buy a Tesla because of Elon. One guy had a Mach E there. He also owns a Y which he had before the Ford that his wife drives. They love the Y, and prefer it to the Mach E but he said he couldn't buy another Tesla because of Musk. It's real. Many people are just tired and upset of the insanity and buy something else despite knowing the Tesla is the better option. You can deny it all you want, or say that it doesn't matter but it does. His truly juvenile and obnoxious behavior is not helping the mission or the stock price.

I don't want him to shut up so much as I want him to grow up.

 

[Tony73]

But wasn't Elon "tweeting" in 2016 also?

What I wouldn’t give for 2016 Twitter Elon.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Hey Elon and Roadster 2 team, here are your goals, now get to work

It looks a bit modified. Are those extra batteries on the floor?
Roadster and Plaid+ have a place for passengers to sit, just sayin'.

 

[Mengy]

It is both. I was just at an EV event (Drive Electric in NJ) lots of folks there including a few other Teslas. So many people said they won't buy a Tesla because of Elon. One guy had a Mach E there. He also owns a Y which he had before the Ford that his wife drives. They love the Y, and prefer it to the Mach E but he said he couldn't buy another Tesla because of Musk. It's real. Many people are just tired and upset of the insanity and buy something else despite knowing the Tesla is the better option. You can deny it all you want, or say that it doesn't matter but it does. His truly juvenile and obnoxious behavior is not helping the mission or the stock price.

While I support Elon's right to say what he wants to, I also do agree with your post and have seen similar responses from people I've talked to. Elon's behavior has had negative impacts on Tesla as a brand. The size of that impact is very open for debate of course, but the impact itself is real in my opinion.

Still, Tesla as a company is doing very well despite this impact.

 

[insaneoctane]

Thank you for the full quotes. Therein lies the problem.

TESLA IS NOT A 100% PRIVATELY-OWNED COMPANY. On the contrary, it is a PUBLIC COMPANY. WE own it.

Elon has a fiduciary responsibility to US and what he says and does matters to the company that WE own.

His public statements have consequences and there is a large (and growing!) subset of the TAM that will NOT buy any Tesla product because of Elon's unhinged comments. We know of at least one couple that have sold their Model Y Performance and will not buy another Tesla (or solar, or HVAC, etc.) as a result.

Elon's comments are many, but some of the most recent/damaging come to mind:

1. House Speaker Pelosi's husband attacked by a random whack job, yet Elon writes/alludes that " . . . there's more to the story." [paraphrased]

Elon turns out to be 100% incorrect.

2. Tech millionaire knifed to death by someone he knew in San Francisco.

Elon posts comments/assumptions that turn out to be 100% incorrect.

3. Elon Musk tweets, then deletes, meme comparing Trudeau to Hitler

4. Too many to count re: COVID being a minor concern . . . .

And more fallout from just last night's interview:

Twitter owner Elon Musk on Tuesday doubled down on his assertion there is “no proof” the swastika-tattooed man suspected of killing eight people at an Allen, Texas, mall earlier this month was a white supremacist.

“I think it was incorrectly ascribed to be a white supremacist action,” Musk told CNBC’s David Faber. “I’m saying that I thought ascribing it to white supremacy was bullshit.”

The suspect, Mauricio Garcia, was shot dead by police during the attack in which he reportedly wore a patch with the text “RWDS” ― short for “Right Wing Death Squad.”
“We do know that he had neo-Nazi ideation. He had patches. He had tattoos. Even his signature verified that,” said Hank Sibley, North Texas regional director for the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Garcia also allegedly posted neo-Nazi content online. [truncated]

Source:

Elon Musk Cooks Up Unbelievable Claim About Swastika-Tattooed Texas Mall Shooter

Twitter’s billionaire owner also defended his attacks on investor and Jewish Holocaust survivor George Soros, calling himself a “pro-Semite, if anything.”

www.huffpost.com

WHAT is Elon's major malfunction here? WHAT if the value of wading into the motivations of a mass murderer?!? How can someone so brilliant be so simultaneously stupid and inept?

In closing, Elon needlessly HARMS THE MISSION with his stream-of-consciousness commentary, much of which is just plain factually incorrect and juvenile. He continues to shoot himself (and us) in the foot.

TESLA is a PUBLIC company, not his personal play thing.

If he doesn't like it, too bad--perhaps he can take TSLA private and just piss off his private shareholders, but that ship has long since sailed . . . .

Until then, someone on the Board of Directors needs to tell Elon to control his Twitter fingers and his mouth. Period.

p.s. We're 100% "in" with THE MISSION. We've been TSLA, and Tesla, owners since 2013, but it's enough. At any other company, with any other BoD, Elon would have been fired long ago.

Elon needs to stop with the stupid public commentary on whatever strikes his fancy at all hours of the day and night. Now.

I don't agree with all your supporting "facts" above. Many of the topics are grey while you paint them as black or white and you see Elon as wrong. Elon is a very unique and rare CEO. He is also human, and therefore flawed. If his flaws overshadow his gifts, the board can find a different flawed CEO that offers a different skill mix. I am still thrilled to have Elon leading, flaws and all. Maybe just realize not everyone agrees with your evaluation(s).

 

[M|S|M MYP]

I have personally lost 7 figures in $TSLA alone as well over the last 1.5 years. I knew what the risks were when investing and was ok with the short term gyrations. When the macros get better and in 2-3 more years, ask yourself who will be the best positioned company to dominate every industry it has its hands in right now?

Long term, Tesla wins and it will not be even close.

JMO of course, NFA

 

[ZeApelido]

As a self-identified bipolar savant with Asperger's,

So basically everyone of this forum?

 

[gene]

It is both. I was just at an EV event (Drive Electric in NJ) lots of folks there including a few other Teslas. So many people said they won't buy a Tesla because of Elon. One guy had a Mach E there. He also owns a Y which he had before the Ford that his wife drives. They love the Y, and prefer it to the Mach E but he said he couldn't buy another Tesla because of Musk. It's real. Many people are just tired and upset of the insanity and buy something else despite knowing the Tesla is the better option. You can deny it all you want, or say that it doesn't matter but it does. His truly juvenile and obnoxious behavior is not helping the mission or the stock price.

I don't want him to shut up so much as I want him to grow up.

I actually really really appreciate Elon very much and realize that all people are a mixed bag. But as a person who attends EV events often and has never paid for Supercharging due to so many Tesla referrals, I have to agree with you. I hear from people often, practically daily, that Elon’s statements how steered them to other EVs. It swayed my sister and her best 2 friends into other cars.

 

[JRP3]

Sure, but that's just a dark murky silhouette of the Highland Model 3. Like, I wanted to actually SEE the car.

As he said that will happen at it's own event.

 

[madodel]

I have personally lost 7 figures in $TSLA alone as well over the last 1.5 years. I knew what the risks were when investing and was ok with the short term gyrations. When the macros get better and in 2-3 more years, ask yourself who will be the best positioned company to dominate every industry it has its hands in right now?

Long term, Tesla wins and it will not be even close.

JMO of course, NFA

Who among the TSLAnaires hasn't lost 7 figures in the past year. I lost 8 figures last year and most of that TSLA. Some progress this year, and last year was in fact mostly macros. Glad I didn't sell off my AAPL when I thought it had run its course. But we can't break out of this until something dramatic happens (new product and/or increased demand) and if people hate the company it is going to take more effort to get things going again.