Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So a German media organisation accepted stolen data/IPR from a rogue employee, and rather than alert the authorities and hand the data back, they'd decided to probe through it instead to try and throw shade at Tesla?

How is that ethical, or even legal? Seems nefarious to me

It's almost impossible to police against internal sabotage. As long as Tesla has it's data hashed/encrypted, with limited access to those with a "need to know" and documented/demonstrable procedures in place, then they have little to answer with regards to GDRP

As regards negative feedback on EAP (FSD is not available in Germany), this is probably very subjective. For instance, I've been using EAP for years and never had an unintended acceleration event, phantom braking, yes, but that's nothing new

"Stolen data" is how we find out about corruption.

 

[Cattledog]

Tesla and Ford
I wonder if this gets TSLA closer to a point where they spin out the supercharging network as a separate business (SPCH), separately traded company, ala the way there is discussion for SpaceX spinning out Starlink. Not sure what advantage there'd be to Tesla to do that, other than realizing a slug of cash in the near future as opposed to generating steady and increasing income over time.

 

[Prunesquallor]

I can just see how welcome that would be to the affected dealers Although it would lock Tesla out of several states.

It’s happening already. I had some collision damage repair done on my Model 3 at an independent "Restoration Center” owned by a dealership. And that's in Texas. And they did an excellent job.

 

[replicant]

Tesla and Ford
I wonder if this gets TSLA closer to a point where they spin out the supercharging network as a separate business (SPCH), separately traded company, ala the way there is discussion for SpaceX spinning out Starlink. Not sure what advantage there'd be to Tesla to do that, other than realizing a slug of cash in the near future as opposed to generating steady and increasing income over time.

SpaceX only tried to do that to fund the Starship program without having to go public. Tesla does not need cash and Elon will certainly avoid putting more of his business in the hands of speculators, especially after the Tesla-SolarCity merger.

Another benefit of spinning off the charging network would be to force Wall Street to better value $TSLA by separating car sales and services. But then, they could do the same with service centers (like dealership…). And with FSD.

I'm sure Tesla execs just don't care about IPOing for the sake of valuation, because most shareholders have a long term view (we're not Wall Street). Let's keep things simple, unless a spin off helps other OEMs join the network. But again, Ford didn't so we're fine.

 

[Big Time]

Debt ceiling negotiations reached? Handshake this morning happened supposedly

 

[Prunesquallor]

This is probably the most important part.
Elon played cooperatively with Ford, but now it's their turn to step up their game: build sensible EVs, in large volume. This increases demand for renewable electricity via Superchargers, and gives some new profit to invest in new solar and Megapacks. A real distributed, solar-powered electricity infrastracture for EVs in all North America. IRA's on top of that. Maybe, in a few years, Autobidder will even generate some profit. Seems a good strategic move and justifies the installing spree of the last few months.

Agree. Two other points:
1) I see this as another "gentrification of Mordor" move. Ford and Tesla are now linked.
2) A stake in the heart of the "coal-powered EV" BS. Ford AND Tesla will now charge at a 100% renewable infrastructure in NA.

Seriously, though. What is VW's move here? (GM is currently irrelevant.) Increasingly, EV brands will be viewed a "left out" if they are not using Tesla Superchargers. This could rapidly cascade into NACS domination.

 

[jerry33]

Locking out of states would have to be resolved.

Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen as long as states are controlled by the dealer cartel.

 

[jerry33]

As different as EVs and ICE are…service facilities seem to be one of the few physical assets that can be easily repurposed. Sure, some employee retraining will be needed; but most of the installed equipment like lifts and tools does apply.

Most of the service I’ve needed on my EV’s have been car issues not EV issues (tires, glass, suspension). Perhaps specialized service centers handle battery/motor swaps a la transmission shops of today.

This will not be low hanging fruit for Optimus. We will need skilled electricians and mechanics for as far as my eyes can see.

Yes, however, there might be one skilled electrician for two to three robots. It takes an electrician to properly size wiring and plan runs etc. but pulling the wire and installing the conduit could be a robotic job (no one likes to pull wire).

 

[Hock1]

Tesla and Ford
I wonder if this gets TSLA closer to a point where they spin out the supercharging network as a separate business (SPCH), separately traded company, ala the way there is discussion for SpaceX spinning out Starlink. Not sure what advantage there'd be to Tesla to do that, other than realizing a slug of cash in the near future as opposed to generating steady and increasing income over time.

I agree. It makes sense from many angles. The one I like the best is the devastating effect it would have on the shorts.

 

[jerry33]

Tesla and Ford
I wonder if this gets TSLA closer to a point where they spin out the supercharging network as a separate business (SPCH), separately traded company, ala the way there is discussion for SpaceX spinning out Starlink. Not sure what advantage there'd be to Tesla to do that, other than realizing a slug of cash in the near future as opposed to generating steady and increasing income over time.

Spinning the Supercharger Network out as a separate business just allows the pirates to short it's stock to zero (like they almost did to Solar City).

 

[unk45]

"This is a significant bit of news for the auto industry. For the first time, a pure electric car is at the top of global sales rankings. And it could only be a Tesla. Yes, JATO data for 53 markets worldwide, plus information for other key markets and estimates for others, indicate that the Tesla Model Y was the world's best-selling car in the first quarter of this year."

Tesla Model Y Was The World's Best-Selling Car In Q1 2023

The numbers show the Tesla Model Y was the best-selling car in the world for the first quarter of 2023.

www.motor1.com

Hmm, only 51 people listening?? But we know them:

• Sawyer
• Gary Black
• Rob Mauer
• Larry Goldberg
• greg
• Whole Mars Catalog
• Walter Isaacson (writing the latest Elon bio)
• Dan Ives
• Munro Live
• Gordon Johnson (!?!)
• Farzad (Elon gave him the first question)
• Me

I suspect Twitter accounting of listeners on Spaces might not be very accurate. That probably matters little when we realize that this announcement is of truly EV world-changing consequence. Tesla Supercharger expansion will certainly accelerate and other OEMs will join the club. Financially this will end out being positive for everyone, including Tesla drivers and TSLA holders because even with modest margins the profit contributions will be substantial over time. Specifically just consider the Tesla energy supplier licenses in several major markets. TE is maturing rapidly in ways we have largely ignored. Now we must begin to quantify this, which we can certainly do once the Ford pricing terms have been disclosed.

 

[jerry33]

It’s happening already. I had some collision damage repair done on my Model 3 at an independent "Restoration Center” owned by a dealership. And that's in Texas. And they did an excellent job.

An individual going to a dealership for collision repair is not the same thing as Tesla partnering with Ford to sell and service cars through a dealership.

 

[lascavarian]

Unfortunately, that's not likely to happen as long as states are controlled by the dealer cartel.

It seems that Ford dealerships (edit & perhaps more in a charging consortium) might push for some accommodation. All dealerships have an interest in finding a way to survive via a new model perhaps.

 

[jkirkwood001]

I suspect Twitter accounting of listeners on Spaces might not be very accurate. That probably matters little when we realize that this announcement is of truly EV world-changing consequence. Tesla Supercharger expansion will certainly accelerate and other OEMs will join the club. Financially this will end out being positive for everyone, including Tesla drivers and TSLA holders because even with modest margins the profit contributions will be substantial over time. Specifically just consider the Tesla energy supplier licenses in several major markets. TE is maturing rapidly in ways we have largely ignored. Now we must begin to quantify this, which we can certainly do once the Ford pricing terms have been disclosed.

Actually, I think it may have to do with device Twitter features. When you open a Spaces (was my first time), it tells you to use the (authenticated) mobile client for the full experience, perhaps for the ability to raise a hand to speak, for example. It says "everyone can view Spaces, even public viewers over the web", so perhaps those viewing through a browser weren't counted as 'Listeners'. I saw soon a number of 21 K in the display, but if you viewed who, it still said 51 listeners, and 2 hosts and 1 speaker (Farzad, who had been granted the right at the time).

 

[jerry33]

It seems that Ford dealerships might push for some accommodation. All dealerships have an interest in finding a way to survive perhaps.

Remember that the dealers are no longer one brand of car per dealer anymore. The largest ones would likely dump Ford rather than give up their cartel. If you own ten or more brands of car, giving up one is less painful than allowing Tesla to expand.

 

[JRP3]

Debt ceiling negotiations reached? Handshake this morning happened supposedly

Source? I'm not finding anything about a deal, everyone saying it's going down to the wire over the long weekend without it being settled.

 

[2daMoon]

It seems that Ford dealerships might push for some accommodation. All dealerships have an interest in finding a way to survive perhaps.

"Perhaps" being the key word there.

As understood best by the Dodo, or any other species which demonstrated how it was unfit for survival.

 

[H Mak]

Really good discussion on the Ford/Tesla deal. I've learnt a lot and have moved from my initial Whaaat! Does that mean I'll be stuck in the queue behind some snotty nosed Leaf driver? To Hmmm, this just might be a genius move. So thanks.

P.s. I used to be that snotty nosed Leaf driver before the Model 3 arrived in this country

 

[GhostSkater]

L

is a ford lightning charging at 350kw slower than a tesla? Even in my simple stripped lightning I initiate charging over 150kw at many EA, most lightning will do 300+.

Lightining won’t be limited by Supercharger V3

It’s charge curve is quite bad, specially when you consider it’s 131 kWh pack size, it would be like a Model 3 peaking at 105 kW, really bad for 2023

And the SoC you plugged in matters like this because the cooling is really poor, pack construction is similar to the Hummer EV, just a tiny bit better

For long trips that you need multiple charges or even worse, if you are towing, it is a pain, drive an hour and a half, stop by for one hours, repeat

This is why Cybertruck will be a smack down for anyone that wants to use a truck as a truck

 

[unk45]

...

I mean that's literally the Number 1 reason people chose one car over another.

...

Were this true the cheapest cars would consistently be the biggest sellers. They are not.
Within a given size and shape class the cheapest is rarely the highest seller. Even with Japanese Kei cars the best sellers are not the cheapest ones.

Pure price is a significant issue to be sure. It is almost never the only or even the major factor. Without question price promotion can and does shift purchase timing and volumes from one source to another.

The marketing world simply is not that simplistic, no matter the price promotions.
For Tesla just take a quick look. The cheapest ones are not the biggest sellers. Price promotions and announcements does generate attention and generate buying interest.
Just look at any OEM average (mean, mode or median-any one of them) and it becomes abundantly clear that the role of price is rather more complex than many of us seem to think.