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More fallout from the UAW deal. Toyota making moves, soon everyone else will too.


Toyota North America did not elaborate on a specific dollar amount. However, pro-labor publication Labor Notes reported that Toyota workers got hourly pay increases of $2.94 for production workers, while skilled trades worker’s pay increased by an extra $3.70.

With these raises in effect, the top pay rate for production workers at Toyota will be at a maximum of $34.80 per hour, while employees with skilled trades will earn a max of $43.20 per hour.

In comparison, the UAW’s tentative agreements grant wage increases across Detroit’s Big Three, with Stellantis and GM’s starting wage increasing to “over $30 an hour,” and the top wage to “over $42 an hour,” while Ford’s starting wage increased to “over $28 an hour” and top wage to “over $40 an hour.”


In a statement, Toyota Motor North America executive vice president of corporate resources Chris Reynolds said that they “value our employees and their contributions, and we show it by offering robust compensation packages that we continually review to ensure that we remain competitive within the automotive industry.”

United Auto Workers president Shawn Fain said in a statement that the longer contracts that his union has negotiated gives more time for the union to organize workers at non-union auto manufacturers like Toyota, Tesla and Nissan, noting that “when we return to the bargaining table in 2028 it won't just be with the Big Three, but with the Big Five or Big Six.”
 
October's new car sale datapoint from Taiwan.
1. Toyota Corolla Cross, 3078
2. Honda CR-V, 1668
3. Toyota RAV4, 1645
4. Toyota Yaris Cross, 1424
5. Toyota Altis, 1199
6. MG HS, 1036
7. Lexus NX, 884
8. Niussan X-trail, 871
9. Mercedes-Benz GLC, 811
10. Ford Focus, 799
11. MG ZS, 751
12. Honda HR-V, 720
13. Hyundai Tuscon L, 688
14. Tesla Model Y, 687
15. Honda Fit, 612
16. Nissan Kicks, 577
17. Toyota Vios, 532
18. Hyundai Custin, 496
19. VW Tiguan, 443
20 .Toyota Sienta, 440

Source: Yaris Cross 破 1400 輛 賓士蟬聯豪華品牌冠軍!10 月台灣新車銷售成績揭曉 - 自由電子報汽車頻道
 
Sorry, I'm not following. You're saying Ford management (in the past) also got benefits to match? I must be translating this wrong.
Yes. Two examples I remember were more vacation days the union had negotiated and an increase in profit sharing.

I am referring to management and salary employees which there are large numbers including production management in the plants. These employees generally are not unionized but generally will be given all the same benefits of the union.

At the executive level it's a whole different story as many have rich packages including free cars etc.
 
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More fallout from the UAW deal. Toyota making moves, soon everyone else will too.


Toyota North America did not elaborate on a specific dollar amount. However, pro-labor publication Labor Notes reported that Toyota workers got hourly pay increases of $2.94 for production workers, while skilled trades worker’s pay increased by an extra $3.70.

With these raises in effect, the top pay rate for production workers at Toyota will be at a maximum of $34.80 per hour, while employees with skilled trades will earn a max of $43.20 per hour.

In comparison, the UAW’s tentative agreements grant wage increases across Detroit’s Big Three, with Stellantis and GM’s starting wage increasing to “over $30 an hour,” and the top wage to “over $42 an hour,” while Ford’s starting wage increased to “over $28 an hour” and top wage to “over $40 an hour.”


In a statement, Toyota Motor North America executive vice president of corporate resources Chris Reynolds said that they “value our employees and their contributions, and we show it by offering robust compensation packages that we continually review to ensure that we remain competitive within the automotive industry.”

United Auto Workers president Shawn Fain said in a statement that the longer contracts that his union has negotiated gives more time for the union to organize workers at non-union auto manufacturers like Toyota, Tesla and Nissan, noting that “when we return to the bargaining table in 2028 it won't just be with the Big Three, but with the Big Five or Big Six.”
IMO, all Elon needs to say internally is "Be patient, won't be long now..." and the employees would all know that the stock will move soon. That's their compensation. If I heard that, I'd be OK as a Tesla line worker. All part of the mission, plus they all know how good the products are compared to the other non-competition.
 
I had an interesting thought about FSD. Some are saying that there is a chance comma.ai gets to full autonomy before Tesla. They throw around numbers like it's a 10% chance or even a 20% chance. So how do they get this? How is there any chance at all that comma.ai wins the race?

Then I realized they are right. If you define full autonomy as maybe L3 or L4 (not robotaxi), comma.ai has a decent chance of winning. And the reason has little to do with the technology itself and everything to do with liability.

You see, comma.ai runs on open source software. Anyone can make any change they want and still run it on comma.ai hardware. There is already community software for comma.ai that removes all the nag and driver monitoring features. At that point, the driver is taking on all the liability.

So comma.ai doesn't have to solve autonomy as well as Tesla. They just have to solve it well enough that lots of people are willing to trust the software and take on the liability.

And what if that happens? What if millions of drivers say, "comma.ai works really well and I don't have to pay attention to the road. Tesla doesn't let me do that and comma.ai is a lot cheaper."

While I don't think comma.ai will get there fast enough, success is a possible outcome.
 
Tell Mr Powell I have a solution to inflation. Notice the correlation between CO2 emissions and inflation.
If we curb the emissions... we fix inflation! :D
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I had an interesting thought about FSD. Some are saying that there is a chance comma.ai gets to full autonomy before Tesla. They throw around numbers like it's a 10% chance or even a 20% chance. So how do they get this? How is there any chance at all that comma.ai wins the race?

Then I realized they are right. If you define full autonomy as maybe L3 or L4 (not robotaxi), comma.ai has a decent chance of winning. And the reason has little to do with the technology itself and everything to do with liability.

You see, comma.ai runs on open source software. Anyone can make any change they want and still run it on comma.ai hardware. There is already community software for comma.ai that removes all the nag and driver monitoring features. At that point, the driver is taking on all the liability.

So comma.ai doesn't have to solve autonomy as well as Tesla. They just have to solve it well enough that lots of people are willing to trust the software and take on the liability.

And what if that happens? What if millions of drivers say, "comma.ai works really well and I don't have to pay attention to the road. Tesla doesn't let me do that and comma.ai is a lot cheaper."

While I don't think comma.ai will get there fast enough, success is a possible outcome.

That is an interesting perspective that has merit regarding adoption of comma.ai on the roads coming sooner than FSD/Robotaxi.

Though, it seems to me that because Tesla is all-in on Robotaxi that FSD is but a stepping stone to get there more directly. Because of this it may not be a priority that FSD be released to the public at L3 or L4, except as the Beta version with the same users' assumption of liability as comma.ai is described above. Even then, FSD Beta is primarily being done for data gathering toward reaching full autonomy.

So, sure, in passing on the liability to an Open Source end user, comma.ai may reach being used for L3 and L4 application first.

Does comma.ai have a hope of providing a workable solution for full autonomy and use in a Robotaxi application before Tesla? It would seem less likely. Though what they do offer could be useful and save lives too.

These two autonomy development projects have what appear to be slightly different end goals and may lead folks to comparing apples to oranges when evaluating them as competing technologies.

It is always good to have more than one player on the field, even if they are playing with different rules and goals. They can learn from one another's accomplishments and setbacks along the way.
 
IMO, all Elon needs to say internally is "Be patient, won't be long now..." and the employees would all know that the stock will move soon. That's their compensation. If I heard that, I'd be OK as a Tesla line worker. All part of the mission, plus they all know how good the products are compared to the other non-competition.

What employees see is that their stock options are underwater / haven't gone anywhere in years. As a result they don't assign any personal monetary value to them.
 
The “all” referenced here is likely correct in the sense you may void your insurance. Operating on unvalidated SW where the result might be deadly to others probably not popular with insurers. YMMV
Yeah, I suspect that will be an issue in the near future no matter what. Whether current policies cover comma.ai might be up to the courts. But soon I expect insurance companies to decide if they want to encourage or discourage its use.

On the one hand, they don't want to be liable for accidents caused by automation. On the other hand, automation might prevent a lot of accidents in the first place.
 
What employees see is that their stock options are underwater / haven't gone anywhere in years. As a result they don't assign any personal monetary value to them.
Do Tesla's factory workers get options or do they get a guaranteed stock grant like RSU's and/or stock purchase plan?

If they aren't getting options then there is no danger of being underwater. But there is a danger of missing out on a sharp rise in value.
 
Subaru, Tesla welcomes u.

I believe Subaru only manufactures one BEV, the Solterra, which is essentially a Toyota bZ4X knockoff, so it is not surprising that when Toyota announced joining NACS that Subaru would have to follow.
 
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