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So, why did these lawyers sue Tesla and Elon again?

The cause of action is described in the suit itself.


And what are the lawyers now asking?

For payment, including a share of the amount they saved shareholders.


A good judge would kick these lawyers with their demands right out of the courtroom.

Why?

Their demands (as a % of the value of the judgement amount in question) is actually smaller than some previous awards in such cases.

See the Dell one I posted a link to earlier, where the lawyers were awarded over 26% of the amount of a billion dollar settlement-- here they're only asking for 11%.

Lawyers in the Enron class action got about 9.5 per cent of the many billion dollars Enron payout, only slightly lower than the % ask in this case.


Again the asking for stock rather than cash is unusual, but the % of the judgement is not at all out of the ordinary
 

🚨

We need each and every one of you to send tens of thousands of letters in the next two weeks to Judge McCormick before she statutes on the plaintiff attorney fees. Time is of essence!

#DelawareCourt81 (to remind of the 81% approval of the 2018 Comp Package)

Listening to the Space below you will understand the motivation and find the instructions for us to make a notable difference in the days / short weeks to come. Please listen to this 45 minutes space to be inspired to send a letter to Chancellor Kathaleen St. J. McCormick.

Describe in your own passionate words, in a VERY RESPECTFUL manner
- your reasons why and since when you are invested in Tesla,
- that there is no financial benefit to any shareholder that could serve as the basis of calculation for plaintiff attorney fees,
- that a payment in stock to the plaintiff attorneys is unimaginable and should have a long vesting period if considered, and
- how this all hurts you, the little shareholder.

Please publish your letter here on X, with the hashtag #DelawareCourt81, to inspire others. Let's all share this initiative to motivate as many as possible. This can be done by shareholders worldwide.

Send a - if possible registered - letter to

The Court of Chancery
To the attention of
The Honorable Chancellor Kathaleen St. J. McCormick
Leonard L. Williams Justice Center
500 North King Street
Wilmington, DE 19801

(no email yet, if we find it, we'll communicate it later).

We are counting on you !!!

Here's her letter:
#DelawareCourt81

The Court of Chancery
To the attention of
The Honorable Chancellor Kathaleen St. J. McCormick
Leonard L. Williams Justice Center
500 North King Street
Wilmington, DE 19801
Santa Barbara, March 3, 2024

Re: Tesla, Inc. and the Recent Court Case on Elon Musk's Compensation Plan

C.A. No. 2018-0408-KSJM

Distinguished Chancellor McCormick,

I am writing to you as a devoted shareholder of Tesla, Inc., expressing my deep respect for the company and my appreciation for the transformative impact it has had on the automotive and energy industry and our planet. At 57 years old, Tesla represents a significant portion of my investment portfolio, including my 401k, IRA, and other investment accounts, which collectively form the foundation of my retirement savings.

Over the past decade, Tesla has not only changed the landscape of the automotive and energy sector but has also played a pivotal role in advancing sustainable and environmentally conscious practices. The innovative vision of Tesla, led by Elon Musk, has had a profound and positive impact on our world, making it a better place for current and future generations.

Let me express my concerns regarding the recent court case surrounding Elon Musk's 2018 compensation plan. It has come to my attention that the plaintiff's attorney is seeking an extraordinary $6 billion in attorney fees. While I recognize the significance of legal representation, the requested amount appears excessive and lacks a transparent connection to any financial benefits that shareholders, such as myself, might reap from the case, benefits that I am currently struggling to identify. Furthermore, the anticipated invalidation of the 2018 pay package due to the court ruling does not provide a solid foundation for calculating potential financial gains. Shareholders, including myself, have already submitted a written request to Tesla’s Board of Directors for the reinstatement of a similar compensation package, underscoring that there is no foreseeable financial gain in this situation.

I am particularly shocked to learn that the plaintiff's counsel is seeking compensation in the form of Tesla stock, the very same stock they have seemingly deemed unworthy during the legal proceedings. If the court is inclined to grant such compensation in stock, I would respectfully request that consideration be given to imposing a lengthy vesting period before the attorneys can liquidate any stock holding. This precautionary measure would safeguard the interests of us small shareholders, preventing any immediate impact on the market that could further harm the value of our investments.

If one contends that compensation ought to be contingent upon the stock's value, it is imperative to assess it at the initiation of the litigation in 2018. Waiting six years, during which the stock experienced substantial gains due to Elon Musk's exceptional contributions to Tesla, appears inconsistent. The plaintiff Counsel, who initially asserted that the compensation package adversely affected shareholders, now seems to opportunistically seek the maximum advantage from a situation they previously decried as detrimental to the company and its investors. This apparent contradiction raises questions about the sincerity of their concerns and the integrity of their current motives.

Chancellor McCormick, I trust in your wisdom and fair judgment in overseeing this matter. As a dedicated shareholder, I am hopeful that the court's decision will prioritize the interests of the company and its shareholders, ensuring a just and equitable resolution.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I appreciate your commitment to upholding justice and fairness within the Court of Chancery.

Sincerely,

Alexandra Merz
 
You're right. A $100 dinner is just like a multibillion dollar deal that is supposed to be made on behalf of thousands of shareholders. Has anyone here graduated from elementary school at least?
No, I was too old... the elementary school graduation ceremonies started after I was past that point :(

Recommended you listen to the X space recording posted a few hours ago in this thread. It was a discussion involving lawyers and they agreed that an amicus brief would not be the best course of action in this situation.
 
Hello everyone, I invested Tesla since 2013. I'm outraged by the lawyers fee. They are thieves.

A couple of questions,

Can we sue Delaware or the judge for destroying Tesla shareholder wealth?

Can we sue the lawyers for the same?

The lawyers did nothing and now stand to gain everything.

Can someone please explain to me how a judge can override the shareholders vote for Elon musk pay package. 80% of shareholders voted yes on elon's musk package.
 
See the Dell one I posted a link to earlier, where the lawyers were awarded over 26% of the amount of a billion dollar settlement-- here they're only asking for 11%.

Lawyers in the Enron class action got about 9.5 per cent of the many billion dollars Enron payout, only slightly lower than the % ask in this case.
The keyword here is "payout", in those cases shareholders got something back, as in cash, and they then share part of that cash with lawyers. In this case us shareholders got nothing, Elon's pay package didn't get redirected to us, so it's a big fat zero for us. In fact it's probably negative since this ruling negatively impacted the stock price.
 
The keyword here is "payout", in those cases shareholders got something back, as in cash, and they then share part of that cash with lawyers. In this case us shareholders got nothing, Elon's pay package didn't get redirected to us, so it's a big fat zero for us. In fact it's probably negative since this ruling negatively impacted the stock price.
Exactly, it negatively impacted us, so how can we sue the judge, lawyers, Delaware? Is it possible?
 
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The keyword here is "payout", in those cases shareholders got something back, as in cash, and they then share part of that cash with lawyers. In this case us shareholders got nothing, Elon's pay package didn't get redirected to us

It literally does get redirected to us though.

The 56 billion in options will be returned from Elon to Tesla, the company the shareholders own, if the judgement stands.

(there's arguments to be made about the 56B number being the right one to use, but the options certainly exist, have value, and would be returned to the company of which the shareholders are the owners)



This is childish and moronic. Has this person ever heard of an amicus brief? Does she know what a legal brief even is? Does she know how to read cases or cite them as precedent? Do people think anyone can just write to a court to persuade it to rule a certain way on a case, like writing to Santa Claus? Glad I hardly ever visit this forum any more.

The suggestion, if you read up one tweet, came from an attorney.



Hello everyone, I invested Tesla since 2013. I'm outraged by the lawyers fee. They are thieves.

A couple of questions,

Can we sue Delaware or the judge for destroying Tesla shareholder wealth?

You CAN sue for anything. Such a suit would likely be tossed out quickly in summary judgement though (in fact that's what the 'waste of money' remark is in the cited tweet above where the lawyer goes on to suggest filing an amicus brief might be more useful)


Can we sue the lawyers for the same?

See above.


The lawyers did nothing and now stand to gain everything.

The lawyers have thousands of billable hours of legal work the loser in a case typically is on the hook for-- even if you entirely ignore the well established right of such attorneys for a share of the funds in the judgement as well.

In fact their request includes 1.1 million dollars for expenses to try the case, entirely separate from the ask for a share of the value of the options being returned.


Can someone please explain to me how a judge can override the shareholders vote for Elon musk pay package. 80% of shareholders voted yes on elon's musk package.

Read the actual ruling. It's explained in considerable detail.

There's arguments for appealing the decision, and I expect Teslas lawyers will make them... but it wasn't just some random throw a dart at a decision thing, it's over 200 pages long explaining how the decision was reached

 
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It literally does get redirected to us though.

The 56 billion in options will be returned from Elon to Tesla, the company the shareholders own, if the judgement stands.

(there's arguments to be made about the 56B number being the right one to use, but the options certainly exist, have value, and would be returned to the company of which the shareholders are the owners)





The suggestion, if you read up one tweet, came from an attorney.





You CAN sue for anything. Such a suit would likely be tossed out quickly in summary judgement though (in fact that's what the 'waste of money' remark is in the cited tweet above where the lawyer goes on to suggest filing an amicus brief might be more useful)




See above.




The lawyers have thousands of billable hours of legal work the loser in a case typically is on the hook for-- even if you entirely ignore the well established right of such attorneys for a share of the funds in the judgement as well.

In fact their request includes 1.1 million dollars for expenses to try the case, entirely separate from the ask for a share of the value of the options being returned.




Read the actual ruling. It's explained in considerable detail.

There's arguments for appealing the decision, and I expect Teslas lawyers will make them... but it wasn't just some random throw a dart at a decision thing, it's over 200 pages long explaining how the decision was reached

Thank you sir. I'm just so angry. We early Tesla investors have gone through so much, now these lawyers are coming to eat our lunch for free. I'm fuming at the mouth.
 
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So a letter to the court by a lay person without legal reasoning, references to laws, or references to cases would then be a good idea. Got it.


The only claims with lack of reasoning so far are the ones you're making since you're ignoring the actual suggestion being made and inventing an imaginary strawman instead.


I even showed you a picture earlier, from an actual attorney, the one who suggested the idea- that includes the fact they'd be hiring an actual lawyer to draft the brief - and including one of the legal arguments he, as an attorney, would include in such a brief.

Here it is again, this time I outlined in green the sentence I guess you missed the first couple times?

brief.jpg
 
Australia originally had NACS then when CCS2 was added with had 2 cables.

has opened up that I
No, Australia never had NACS. We originally had a modified Type 2/Menezes that provided DC charging and comms through the pins. Then when model 3 was released CCS2 combo cables were added at superchargers and older S and X could get upgrades for CCS2.
 
Can someone please explain to me how a judge can override the shareholders vote for Elon musk pay package.

She can't (but it'll still take a year or more to undo what she's done). Another case was overturned on appeal in the Delaware Supreme Court which ruled that the "entire fairness doctrine**" DOES NOT overrule the Investor franchise. Simply put, the judge isn't allowed to put her view on a contract above Investor's will as expressed in a vote. This is IMPORTANT, so here's more:

**The "entire fairness review" is the legal mechanism by which Judge McCormick shifted the burden-of-proof in this case from the plaintiff to the defendant: (more here as a start)

Entire fairness requires the court to strictly scrutinize all aspects of a transaction to ensure fairness, and, as such, “fairness as to one prong will not necessarily sterilize or immunize a defendant from liability.”

[PDF] The Business Judgment Rule and the Entire Fairness Doctrine | rc.com

The Judge doesn't get to override Shareholders on 'whole fairness' grounds, in spite of her attempt to paint the vote as being invalid because Investors were 'uninformed'. Yeah, like the way she didn't inform readers of her 200 page Manifesto that Elon was also voted in by Shareholderes as CHAIRMAN of the Board and he was relected numerous times (so of course he had influence and close relationships with the Board. So what?! That's NORMAL. Show that's a problem, or illegal! Else, fizzle...)

So here's the Legal Deal:
  • WE ARE LEGAL ADULTS;
  • WE ARE LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE,
  • WE VOTED AS LEGALLY ENTITLED
  • THE JUDGE CAN'T OVERIDE THAT, LEGALLY.
Judge McCormick was also wrong in law on her dependance on the notion that Board Members weren't "truly independant". That has no meaning in law. The NASDAQ stock exchange itself defines an Independant Board member as follows:

“Independent director” means a person other than an officer or an employee of the company or its subsidiaries, or any other individual having a relationship that, in the opinion of the Board, would interfere with the exercise of independent judgment in carrying out the responsibilities of a director.​

Corporate Governance Guidelines - nasdaq investor relations | ir.nasdaq.com

Only Tesla's Independant Board Members participated in the CEO Comp Plan negotiations, and the plan itself was devised by an outside group of professional Compensation consultants and acedemic advisors. In the Financial Press at the time, the CEO Comp. plan was widely touted as wildly ambitious, impossible, and a great deal for shareholders if it works. Which it did. That group no longer exists; it is not a simple matter of voting again with new information (the Judge set up this problem for the future of any comp. plan).

So, this judgement inevitably will be overturned on appeal. An experienced Judge shirley would know this (she's the Chief Justice of the Chancery Court, BTW so she's not inexperienced). No, very likely she knew that, and issued her 200 page Manifesto on Billionaire "Fair Pay" anyway, knowing full-well that the appeal would stretch well beyond Jan 2025 before her judgement is overturned.

Here's a rough outline of the timing for the Appeal process:
  • Her findings were published on Jan 30, 2024 which starts a clock ticking
  • she has 60 days after that to issue a final judgement (after negotiations inevitably fail between the parties)
  • That's April 1st, 2024 which is the earliest possible date on which Tesla can file an appeal, but I believe they have at least 30 days to do so
  • That's May 1st, at which time the Delaware Supreme Court has to decide if they will hear the appeal (they'd risk chaos if they said no), then they have to schedule oral arguements for the appeal, give that at least another 120 days (or more)
  • That's takes us to at least Sep 01; Call it 5 days of oral arguments, a round of final remarks from each side, and then the appeal goes to the members of the Court to deliberate. Then its likely 6 months to get a ruling, that takes us to ~Mar 1st, 2025
Here's the cynical part: the timing of the 2024 U.S. Senate election cycle in Delaware:
  • there is no incumbent running for re-election in Nov 2024 (Dem Senator is retiring)
  • there's 1 announced Dem. candidate who is a 1-term Member of the House (junior)
  • Democratic nominations for Senate close on Sep 08, 2024 in Delaware
  • by that time (according to the timetable above), Judge McCormick will have finished her legal role in the Elon Musk's CEO Comp case, and will feel free to pursue any larger political ambitions she may have... (did you READ THE MANIFESTO?)
  • She began "Does the richest man in the world deserve"
  • The Senate seat will be voted on on Election Day: Tues, Nov 05, 2024
  • Newly elected Senators will be sworn in at Noon E.T. on Jan 03, 2025
So you see, this judge (and her Anti-Billionaire Manifesto / Campaign platorm) could well run for Senate, be elected, and sworn in ALL before the Delaware Supreme Court issues a ruling on their appeal of recinding the CEO Comp. Plan.

Why is this CYNICAL you may ask? Well, the Judge wrote in her 'findings' that Elon "controlled the timing" of the Comp Plan negotiations? (yeah, so? didn't show that it affected the outcome, though). And per the above, we see that Judge McCormick, by wating 14 months from the close of oral arguments until delivering her decision, CONTROLLED the timing of the appeals outcome (which she shirley knew would be negative for her), so that the APPLEAL would not influence or affect her election to the U.S. Senate.

Why is that a problem? Her agenda is clearly Anit-Billionaire, and specifically Anti-Elon because of the out-sized confidence placed in him by Tesla shareholders (81% per your comment). Would-be Sen. McCormick could very possibly co-sponsor a Senate Bill to impose a 1% annual Tax on Billionaire's stock holdings.

This is bad. Bad for busines, bad for the economy, and bad for investors. Elon 's shares are not readily negotiable for cash (as would be required to pay annual taxes). When a large insider sells, the stock crashes (we saw 100:1 drops in Market Cap vs. value of Shares sold). The stark reality is that Market Cap is not the same thing as Enterprise Value, and it makes extremely poor business sense to sell a fixed portion on a predictable timetable (c.f. hedge fund 'snarks' smelling blood in the water). Some things take time, like Model 2, which will be 8 years in the making.

TL;dr Judge McCormick may be setting herself up to us this Delaware Chancery Court decision to launch a political career in the U.S. Senate with omious consequences for any business which trades in public markets, as does TSLA on the NASDAQ stock exchange.

P.S. The Judge in this case closed here opinion by writing "The Plaintiff is entitled to recision". I counter that the Defendant is entitled to spend any amount he sees fit in the U.S. Senate race in Delaware in 2024, and he'd be doing us all a favor if he does so boldly, as he excercies his 1st Amendment Rights. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2010, "Money is Speech". I hope Elon will speak LOUDLY if this Judge/U.S. Senator wannabe acts as I have outlined is possible above, and with the full leverage of all his social media influence.

Regards,
Lodger

#Predict
 
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So why couldn't Elon just sue Tesla for loss of wages? Can a CEO even do that? And I'm not suggesting it would be truly adversarial.

According to the judge, Tesla didn't sufficiently disclose conficts and influence through the shareholder vote process, so on this reading it's Tesla's negligence that resulted in Elon's compensation plan being overturned. The optics may not look great but does Tesla have to put up the most strenuous defence? And it could be an alternative to another vote with uncertain outcomes. Such a case could also be used as a forcing function to reach a better resolution through another avenue. Could such a case force the judge to delay any award of payment to the plaintiff lawyers? It may be a crazy suggestion but it's one that I haven't seen proposed yet.
 
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Please never leave this forum! Awesome summary!! This is why I still come to read this thread :cool:

View attachment 1024406

Lol, I'm like a High School Junior compared to our All-Time Gratefulness, @Fact Checking here at TMC or @Tesla_Truth (or some such) on Twitter (do you know if he's still active?)

His insights during Spring 2019 and the $.Elon's.C saga were invaluable (I think he even coined the phrase). We need that again (I last posted this image on Apr 16, 2020) :D

1709541905138.jpeg


Let's see if the "Fact Signal" stlll holds a candle to this crime scene...

Cheers!
 
The cause of action is described in the suit itself.




For payment, including a share of the amount they saved shareholders.




Why?

Their demands (as a % of the value of the judgement amount in question) is actually smaller than some previous awards in such cases.

See the Dell one I posted a link to earlier, where the lawyers were awarded over 26% of the amount of a billion dollar settlement-- here they're only asking for 11%.

Lawyers in the Enron class action got about 9.5 per cent of the many billion dollars Enron payout, only slightly lower than the % ask in this case.


Again the asking for stock rather than cash is unusual, but the % of the judgement is not at all out of the ordinary


But isn't it detrimental to the company directly?
Instead of a influx of cash due to the option exercise, they now have to issue shares for free? And that won't cause any tax consequences/cash-outflow at all?

A company neutral exchange would be to issue those 29m shares as options with same total option cost as Elons full package. But at the current stock price that would be a negative trade..

And on top of the monetary value of the request, there is the value of the associated voting rights. How much does this add to the claimed sensible 11% ask value?
 
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This is not a new thing
Correct, I watched a YT channel with some actual lawyers when this decision first was released and they predicted a multibillion fees/award was coming.

The amount is mostly meaningless if Tesla appeals and wins on appeal. If Tesla loses on appeal only then does this decision begin to have real weight as a legal precedent applicable to many incorporations in the state. And the award could be big.

IANAL, looks like the award will be argued down a bit and decision will not be appealed. Tesla flees the state. The issue of an incompetent/misguided board remains the case. More suits might follow……. YMMV
 
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Anec-data… a relative just picked up their Model Y (and first Tesla) yesterday! Their Jeep 4xe has been un-driveable for the past several months due to their recall on the battery system (which got very little news coverage… shocking!).

Cybertruck is infiltrating Austin and seeing more of them here in Westlake.
The only Ford MachE on my street has disappeared, replaced by a nice new Model 3!