Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[2daMoon]

Most of my driving is now road trips as I no longer have a commute. This plan will certainly penalize me--unless it's only for those who subscribe rather than purchase. As I take around four road trips a year, eight months would be overcharged because of very few miles (assumes a number of miles are included, and no carry over), and four months would be overcharged due to miles.

Would you prefer to pay $200/month or $50/month for those 8 months where you are not taking a road trip?

Give some consideration as to which would feel more like a penalty.

Perhaps the base could be for the year? Accumulating unused miles each month over time. I'm sure a study of "phone minutes" rate plan strategies from back in the day would provide some metrics for planning the service charges.

There could also be tiers, as someone suggested. Then you select the appropriate tier for your use scenario as needed. Or, it automatically bills you for the tier you are in for the period.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Been catching up on the last day of posts.

If I understand this correctly Elon now wants Tesla to kidnap their customers at delivery for an hour, or longer, to up-sell? Not a single poster thought that was a little ... un-Tesla?

I've seen thousands of posts over the years criticizing dealers for doing just that.

It is a little scary how so many are able to think everything Elon comes up with on a whim is a brilliant idea.

I agree, seems like it was a on a whim from FSD excitement. But I don't think we know for sure.

Seems it started this way with the 2AM note, then the cover-up between Mars and Elon (oops... calibration?). Then suddenly everyone gets FSD in the US. So not sure if the intro demo's are still in plan, maybe on a calibrated vehicle. Anyone actually know for sure?

 

[spacerfc]

An interesting look at the current Chinese EV market:

China’s EV price war is killing brands and infuriating consumers

Fast depreciation in an already slow market has panicked car buyers, many of whom are venting their frustrations on social media.

restofworld.org

 

[uscbucsfan]

I agree, seems like it was a on a whim from FSD excitement. But I don't think we know for sure.

Seems it started this way with the 2AM note, then the cover-up between Mars and Elon (oops... calibration?). Then suddenly everyone gets FSD in the US. So not sure if the intro demo's are still in plan, maybe on a calibrated vehicle. Anyone actually know for sure?

We know the demo thing cannot happen currently, but maybe when/if they get the calibration to work without driving. It's not released at this point, so it's not imminent.

They could use a demo vehicle to offer a test drive in the mean time. I know from the delivery posts, they aren't doing it as of yesterday.

 

[replicant]

Been catching up on the last day of posts.

If I understand this correctly Elon now wants Tesla to kidnap their customers at delivery for an hour, or longer, to up-sell? Not a single poster thought that was a little ... un-Tesla?

I've seen thousands of posts over the years criticizing dealers for doing just that.

It is a little scary how so many are able to think everything Elon comes up with on a whim is a brilliant idea.

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't created some smart FSD tutorials for new customers to learn about with FSD, where you can interact with the touchscreen and physical controls (stalks, pedals, etc) to self-assesss your knowledge.

They could offer a complet tour with advanced video lessons, tips, quizzes, progress levels, AI-powered Q&A (where human assistants can take over via chat and video calls in the app and car screen), etc.

From my experience talking with store people, they know less about the cars than I do – and I don't own one.

 

[SO16]

An interesting look at the current Chinese EV market:

China’s EV price war is killing brands and infuriating consumers

Fast depreciation in an already slow market has panicked car buyers, many of whom are venting their frustrations on social media.

restofworld.org

I still cannot get over the people that BUY and are concerned about resale. Geez….just drive it as long as possible and resale won’t matter anyway. Then you can pay less for your next vehicle which also means less taxes/insurance. Or buy used or lease if you want to flip often.

Even with Hertz, they could have kept the cars longer to get over 100k miles out of them since they bought during peak Covid prices. No reason to treat them like ICE. Then Companies say they won’t buy Tesla again because of dropping prices? So I guess they want to get screwed paying too much every time.

First, people complained about prices too high. Now they complain they are dropping too fast. Good grief.

 

[SOULPEDL]

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't created some smart FSD tutorials for new customers to learn about with FSD, where you can interact with the touchscreen and physical controls (stalks, pedals, etc) to self-assesss your knowledge.

They could offer a complet tour with advanced video lessons, tips, quizzes, progress levels, AI-powered Q&A (where human assistants can take over via chat and video calls in the app and car screen), etc.

From my experience talking with store people, they know less about the cars than I do – and I don't own one.

I gave it a funny at first. It's been discussed over the years and again this AM... we aren't the only ones seeing this. It's the typical "software" company approach applied to driving skills. Nuts!

 

[2daMoon]

Been catching up on the last day of posts.

If I understand this correctly Elon now wants Tesla to kidnap their customers at delivery for an hour, or longer, to up-sell? Not a single poster thought that was a little ... un-Tesla?

I've seen thousands of posts over the years criticizing dealers for doing just that.

It is a little scary how so many are able to think everything Elon comes up with on a whim is a brilliant idea.

It seems more to me like, "Your new car comes with a free month use of a cool feature, let me show you how it works" than an up-sell.

This is more effective than advertising, and maximizes the hands-on experience for owners.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Oh, so close to 180, I can taste it!

 

[DarkandStormy]

Been catching up on the last day of posts.

If I understand this correctly Elon now wants Tesla to kidnap their customers at delivery for an hour, or longer, to up-sell? Not a single poster thought that was a little ... un-Tesla?

I've seen thousands of posts over the years criticizing dealers for doing just that.

It is a little scary how so many are able to think everything Elon comes up with on a whim is a brilliant idea.

Forced test drives is not something dealerships do.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This is absolutely how FSD should be positioned. I think Elon and Cathy vastly overestimate the number of people who will be willing to turn their cars over to the masses. And to date, I've not seen any presentation on exactly how Robo-utopia would work - who will charge the cars between fares? It's not like Supercharger stations have attendants - or will they be Optimus robots? How will profits be split between the owner and Tesla? And liability insurance? Damages? Who will clean the cars? No, not for me. But I did like having FSD on my last car and would consider buying/renting it again for personal use - but not at the absurd price Tesla is charging today.

Most of what you're worrying about are small details and some are obvious, like liability obviously being with the network.
You're talking about there being frickin' robotaxis and are worried about charging and cleaning?
Taxi miles are relatively low so for the most part charging not a problem: if the owner can charge at home, the car will be charged at home, and the owner can clean them.
But for a service fee you could also replace parking cars and pumping gas* with plugging cars in and cleaning them as basic, unskilled automotive jobs at key urban charging hubs. And, it's a frickin' robotaxi so it could happen any time of day or night.

* A great verse of a great song

 

[SOULPEDL]

It's official!

 

[mongo]

Seems it started this way with the 2AM note, then the cover-up between Mars and Elon (oops... calibration?). Then suddenly everyone gets FSD in the US. So not sure if the intro demo's are still in plan, maybe on a calibrated vehicle. Anyone actually know for sure?

What "cover-up"? Mars previously picked up his Cybertruck, he was most assuredly not getting another new Tesla so would not have been on an FSD demo ride. It was a joke.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Forced test drives is not something dealerships do.

Yeah, I was being kind to Elon. Dealerships just try to keep you in the office to upsell you on stuff. You are free to leave at anytime and go buy somewhere else.

Elon wanted to make you have no choice than to spend time to be able to get a car you already paid for delivered. This was so badly thought through that it's worrying that so many seemed to think the only problem was how to get the cars calibrated to do it.

 

[cab]

It's official!

View attachment 1032206

Congrats @SOULPEDL - I GLADLY concede your victory to you - maybe until Monday - ;>

 

[SOULPEDL]

Congrats @SOULPEDL - I GLADLY concede your victory to you - maybe until Monday - ;>

Thanks! I wasn't sure if you were still around.
There's another one that says we'll hit 200 before 140 160...

Edit: My reward to myself...
Might sell a few more before Monday, in case another buy comes along shortly thereafter.

 

[DarkandStormy]

This is absolutely how FSD should be positioned. I think Elon and Cathy vastly overestimate the number of people who will be willing to turn their cars over to the masses. And to date, I've not seen any presentation on exactly how Robo-utopia would work - who will charge the cars between fares? It's not like Supercharger stations have attendants - or will they be Optimus robots? How will profits be split between the owner and Tesla? And liability insurance? Damages? Who will clean the cars? No, not for me. But I did like having FSD on my last car and would consider buying/renting it again for personal use - but not at the absurd price Tesla is charging today.

The idea of FSD - and selling that idea while taking in tens of thousands of dollars per customer - is more valuable to Tesla than actually implementing it.

If they were on the verge of a true robotaxi / robotaxi network, why would they give up some % of that profit to owners of the vehicles? Elon said in 2015 (? The year escapes me but it's been awhile) that they had an automated snake charger. So if the cars can drive themselves and pull into a Supercharger stall and get a charge autonomously, why go through the mess of splitting things with current owners? After all, the net present value of FSD is "on the order of a couple hundred thousand dollars," per Elon. It seems more valuable to capture 100% of that rather than split it with an owner for $12k or $200/month.

 

[Usain]

Anything AI is going to be hot. Perhaps the fact that FSD is getting a little new attention has given us a little pop today.

Does today's price movement suggest that FSD does not need to show significant revenue before the street starts to get excited about it?

 

[Usain]

The idea of FSD - and selling that idea while taking in tens of thousands of dollars per customer - is more valuable to Tesla than actually implementing it.

If they were on the verge of a true robotaxi / robotaxi network, why would they give up some % of that profit to owners of the vehicles? Elon said in 2015 (? The year escapes me but it's been awhile) that they had an automated snake charger. So if the cars can drive themselves and pull into a Supercharger stall and get a charge autonomously, why go through the mess of splitting things with current owners? After all, the net present value of FSD is "on the order of a couple hundred thousand dollars," per Elon. It seems more valuable to capture 100% of that rather than split it with an owner for $12k or $200/month.

I think there will be a period of time when some of today's Tesla vehicles do participate in a robotaxi network. But most won't.

The Gen 3 vehicle is the purpose-built robotaxi. That's the one Tesla is counting on. So selling FSD right now is just a way to grow the business in the meantime.

 

[Ellec]

Where are all the folks who sold at < $170 now?