Musskiah
DisGruntled
I'm enjoying p'owning noobs90% of the posts I'm seeing are responses to ignored members. Haven't we fed them long enough?
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I'm enjoying p'owning noobs90% of the posts I'm seeing are responses to ignored members. Haven't we fed them long enough?
It is incredibly useful to look at profit/vehicle because it puts profitability truly in perspective. Volume won't drop by 55%, so you are just flapping your yapper.
Then why did we "read into" the prior weeks of China registrations? Then why are you trying to cherry pick one Q of operating margins rather than use TTM?
Were we to have access to internal data we'd find that within a given Model range, (e.g. Model 3, BMW 3 series) OEM's invariably price the lowest level vehicle in a range so as to provide a net contribution to fixed costs, that the variable costs of manufacturing, distributing, selling and warranty are all covered plus some, any, contribution to fixed costs. The same OEM's have also all options, upgrades, services in higher specification models (e.g. at extreme BMW M3, Tesla Model 3 Ludicrous, more modestly, colors, trim etc). Virtually all the actual profit is provided by options and upgrades....
Profitability / car is not a very useful metric . That's why it's mostly a sidenote and people tend to focus on overall margins.
Alright, I'll ignore you with everyone elseI didn't. Weekly has a lot of noise, monthly is better, especially when compared to previous year. It seems to me that a lot of you aren't able to carry on a proper conversation without resorting to ad hominem attacks. That's disappointing. Profitability is gross margin if you want. Tesla's is bang on in the pack, nothing special.
Why pick one quarter? Because as an investor, you should be interested in where this is going, not where it's been. Do you have any reasons to believe volumes and operating margins will magically increase over the next few quarters? Why?
The CyberTruck had no place to be built. We bought into lies about its delivery time frame. Covid did not slow down GigaTexas construction. GigaTexas broke ground August 2020.5 years ago they were ramping up Model Y and then Covid messed up everything. They repeatedly told investors that bringing a new model to market would have resulted in fewer total vehicles produced. This was why the Cybertruck was late.
No new tech for the existing models? Are you serious? I mean 5 years ago they were still building up the chassis structure from stamped parts.
Yeah me too, please ignore the trolls people!90% of the posts I'm seeing are responses to ignored members. Haven't we fed them long enough?
Indeed, since I've been here, I'm finding this forum a more bloated, mind-numbing waste of time lately. And I have over 90 members (many long gone, but still) -on ignore.Its funny how this thread always gets super-obsessed over the latest thing, and forgets everything else going on...
@Musskiah PLEASE just:...so you are just flapping your yapper.
If you look at the trend, Tesla is growing AI spending faster than the Big 4 AI. If they spend $10B in 2024 on AI as projected, that will be more than a doubling over 2 years. None of the Big 4 AI players can beat that.
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Before the earnings call I had written how I hoped they would be ambiguous. They were. This is as it should be.
Analysts, for the most part, ask dumb questions. (there are exceptions) I enjoy it when they simply refuse to answer the useless questions and move on.
The quoted message included a quote taken from the earnings call in the post you replied to. The Earnings Call quote began with,
"We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models"
How much more clear would you need the message to be in order for you to think they said there will be new models?
It's nothing to do with FUD. It's just that the sales reductions have caused Musk to change the company's direction and there's nothing to reveal.Beyond this, there is no need to feed your and other's curiosity until the model is ready. They have learned their lesson regarding all the FUD that is generated when they tell too much too soon. Tesla folks won't be revealing further information in advance. It is beneficial for them to tease, then provide more info as those models are nearer to production.
I refuse to believe this little court is unaccountable to the appeals process, an essential element of the rule of law. Can anyone explain Tesla’s future recourse whatever the output from the DE court?
Seriously? You cannot dismiss it because it's not happened for some time. Nor because it is directly attributable to inventory (you do not know if it's all 'in transit') or AI. Really it does not matter exactly how it happened. That it did is a major issue. Explaining it away doesn't eliminate it. Another clue, eliminating the advertising team (an experiment that proved to be a waste), eliminating the Lithium project (no longer needed, write it off and move one) plus the other major steps.Negative FCF was the exception, it's not the rule.
-$2.5B due to inventory in transit (which will be sold in early Q2)
-1B to AI
DoneIndeed, since I've been here, I'm finding this forum a more bloated, mind-numbing waste of time lately. And I have over 90 members (many long gone, but still) -on ignore.
MOD's- I'd love it if you folks would step in and risk hurting some feeloings or whaever it takes.
@Musskiah PLEASE just:
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Listen buckaroo, I don't think it's wise to argue against Tesla's (absolute) profitability on a per-vehicle basis - it is nothing short of astounding. No other EV is even in the same solar system of profitability in absolute terms. Most other gas vehicles aren't either, the exception being MB, BMW, Stellantis, and scarce sports/hypercars (which is why Ferrari isn't really a fair comparison). Tesla's profit margin per car in 2023 was $8,279, compared to $9580 in 2022, over $6000 in 2021. Let's not try to argue that these aren't fat, fat margins.
Glad to find we agree on my original point, that Elon's companies typically enjoy incredible profitability in their respective industries. Do we agree on Tesla Energy being profitable, or do we need to go to school on that one?
FCF is lumpy, historically. I think we need to give it another Q before calling it a "major issue."Seriously? You cannot dismiss it because it's not happened for some time. Ron Baron is already convinced.
That is not what Elon nor Tesla said, they never used the word "interim". You are assuming that.
This is the exact statement from the Q1 2024 ER, page 10 under Products:
"We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.
This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines.
Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy."
Tesla never once said the unboxed lines would be making RT's "in the interim", we can't assume that is what they meant. They are only stating the unboxed line will be making RT's while the 3&Y lines will be making the consumer affordable EV's. This is the plan they have told us so far.
Now, is it possible the unboxed lines might also make the affordable EV's down the road? Certainly. But as of right now we have no confirmation of that.
Elon has now confirmed the unboxed line is 100% only for Robotaxi's
"We have updated our future vehicle line-up to accelerate the launch of new models ahead of our previously communicated start of production in the second half of 2025.
These new vehicles, including more affordable models, will utilize aspects of the next generation platform as well as aspects of our current platforms, and will be able to be produced on the same manufacturing lines as our current vehicle line-up.
This update may result in achieving less cost reduction than previously expected but enables us to prudently grow our vehicle volumes in a more capex efficient manner during uncertain times. This would help us fully utilize our current expected maximum capacity of close to three million vehicles, enabling more than 50% growth over 2023 production before investing in new manufacturing lines.
Our purpose-built robotaxi product will continue to pursue a revolutionary “unboxed” manufacturing strategy."
‘The’ ? Singular?We really should all just ignore the obvious troll here.
Uh-huh....so? Are you going to argue Tesla isn't profitable now too?
IMO the staff cuts were never about 10% across the board.
Elon was looking for duplicated or unnecessary functions, and under performing staff,
Not what others consider duplicated, unnecessary or under performing - his opinion.
So it is possible that the cuts to the charging team were significantly more than 10%, and that Elon had already formed an opinion on many of the staff and many of the functions.
Regardless of what actually happened, all mangers now have got the message that if their team contains 3 members that Elon considers to be under performing, they are heading for the exit. I think this is a case of "the end justifies the means", the priority is to get rid of underperforming staff, and charging was an expendable way of underlying the message.
Regardless of whether Elon is right or wrong, he is typically first.
The most recent similar example is EV price cuts, first many claimed Tesla was wrong to cut prices, then many copied, or stopped making EVs and pivoted to hybrids.
Stellantis has already laid off a lot of staff, these Tesla layoffs are the perfect excuse for any other carmaker wanting to lay off staff.
Job losses typically come before interest rate cuts, that is the way the blunt instruments work,
I'm enjoying p'owning noobs