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So what's the best explanation for the slowdown in Tesla's sales, when they keep lowering ASP and improving offering, while ICE sales don't drop as much/fast?
Are you sure about that? Ford, Toyota and VW ARE doing better, but they have a much broader range of vehicles, and they also have dealership networks that let them channel-stuff to avoid showing the immediate drop in sales.
I would like Tesla to have a small van, a large van, and a compact car, to fill out the range and make them less vulnerable to sales shocks, but in the meantime, given the small Tesla range, they are actually doing pretty well. Also cybertruck is not vaguely ramped yet. Q2 should be much more upbeat.

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So my question of the day is, "What makes Elon so confident that Tesla in 2024 will beat 2023 deliveries?"

If he really is confident, my guess is that Elon is planning drastic price cuts. More drastic than anything we've seen so far. I can think of two reasons this will be possible:
1. Battery prices will continue to fall sharply.
2. Tesla can cut margins close to zero in order to collect FSD revenue later.
Thats only one strategy. The other could be:
Cybertruck ramp + model Y juniper refresh + entry into some new markets.
 
I scrolled quickly by the last few pages of annoying arguments between two members who should know better - at least for boring us with their pissing contest - and realized nobody has mentioned our amazing green day! Whoo-hoo! Up +0.01%! I'm up... (checks dynamic Sheet)... three figures. Sweet.

AND we broke $180!! Let's pop the Prosecco! ;)

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You may be right. The only reason to ever drink Prosecco or Cava would be to really wallow in the feeling of "Meh". If it's a great stock market day, I celebrate in Champagne. If it's a really poor market day, I drown my sorrows in a nice Champagne.
 
Thats only one strategy. The other could be:
Cybertruck ramp + model Y juniper refresh + entry into some new markets.

The Juniper refresh doesn't seem to be happening until sometime in 2025. But whenever it does happen I may be tempted to trade in my 2022 Model Y for one. Typically I keep cars for 10+ years but I feel like based on the Highland reviews, the Juniper Y could be a big enough improvement to convince me to upgrade.
 
Shorts hold negative shares, so their No will be negated to a Yes.
That is clever, but incorrect. Shorts do not 'hold negative shares'. They borrow shares in hopes of repaying them at lower price later. Single exception: market makers in the US can sell shares they do not own (i.e. "naked shorts"). They still aren't 'negative shares' just imaginary ones. They still must eventually buy shares to deliver to the buyers. 'fail to deliver' is a growing issue and one that is fraught. Luckily for those market makers, they are mostly self-regulated. Many other countries are much less tolerant of such shenanigans.
 
That is clever, but incorrect. Shorts do not 'hold negative shares'. They borrow shares in hopes of repaying them at lower price later. Single exception: market makers in the US can sell shares they do not own (i.e. "naked shorts"). They still aren't 'negative shares' just imaginary ones. They still must eventually buy shares to deliver to the buyers. 'fail to deliver' is a growing issue and one that is fraught. Luckily for those market makers, they are mostly self-regulated. Many other countries are much less tolerant of such shenanigans.
Pretty sure that was a joke.
 
Elon didn’t just get lucky with the Covid boom? Is the current stock price still high enough to warrant the full compensation package?
Remember , while legacy companies were slashing their production due to poor maintenance of supply chain , cancelling semiconductor orders and then running short of chips - overall poor management . While Elon was guiding Tesla deftly through all the COVID doom and gloom ( Inspite of the best efforts of politicians in Cali to shut Tesla down )
Elon actually deserves a bigger package , not Just for keeping lights on in Tesla but for helping it thrive and flourish thru all of it . My 0.02
 
Pretty sure that was a joke.
With a nugget of truth.
If the original share owner (lender) was not supportive of the Board's recommendations, but the person who bought the shares from the trader that shorted them (by borrowing from the original owner) is, then that effectively flips the votes from No to Yes.
 
Not a coincidence of course and the heart of the power and culture of the place.
They can't even get their electrical grid to work properly, and the government turns paved roads back to gravel because it so hates the idea of spending tax money on road maintenance. So sure, it totally makes sense to incorporate the world's finest EV company in a state run by climate deniers and where the attorney general -- the state's top law enforcment officer! -- has been indicted for... wait for it.... securities fraud.
You can't make this stuff up.

Several decades ago Texas determined that it costs less to pave a gravel road than to maintain them. Gravel roads have become an endangered species across the state since then.

The previous post above clears up the facts about where Texas stands on supporting the grid with renewables. They are leading the nation. But, you claim Texas is a state run by climate deniers? This is blatantly contradictory to the facts.

Finding a politician who isn't a crook is a difficult task, anywhere. They can always be replaced when they get caught.

Clearly, in Texas they do get caught. This is a bad thing how?
 
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Are you sure about that? Ford, Toyota and VW ARE doing better, but they have a much broader range of vehicles, and they also have dealership networks that let them channel-stuff to avoid showing the immediate drop in sales.
I would like Tesla to have a small van, a large van, and a compact car, to fill out the range and make them less vulnerable to sales shocks, but in the meantime, given the small Tesla range, they are actually doing pretty well. Also cybertruck is not vaguely ramped yet. Q2 should be much more upbeat.

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Most of these are the "BEV" unit of OEM with with better sales (when all types of vehicules are included). That's my point!

Would love to see the comprensive list, together with the drop in ASP.

e;g Stellantis (4th largest OEM) had 10% drop in global sales YoY, but +8% growth for BEV (and +80% for North Am. PHEV) source
 
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So what's the best explanation for the slowdown in Tesla's sales, when they keep lowering ASP and improving offering, while ICE sales don't drop as much/fast?

This scenario goes clearly against my bullish thesis and I'm unable to provide satisfying answers to the questions I get. I've ready the vast majority of posts in this thread but can't find a summary of the best arguments (by investors).

I know about the official reasons for the YoY issues – red sea conflict and arson attack – but the layoff we're hearing about seem far more structural than the "operational efficiency" program the management is telling us about.


I've said this before, but I think the slowdown is simply more competition (and a EV price war in China who also has a lot more nationalism preference (see Apple issues)). This had to happen when 5 years ago, there was only the Bolt competing. Now, look around, you see other EV brands all over the road now from: BMW, Ford, Audi, Lucid, Rivian, Porsche, Audi, Kia/Hyundai. I don't see much from GM though. :)

Every single other EV brand you see on the road used to be an additional Tesla sale.

Market share had to go down and for lux items, not everyone wants to buy something everyone else can afford or is like half of every car you see in CA. I think the Macan EV will sell well, even at those prices.

Another major factor is interest rates obviously. People are poor and don't spend $$ wisely. They have to finance their cars and higher interest rates naturally forces them to be able to afford less or buy used when used Tesla's (and all other EV brands) have taken a beating. This affects other EV makers too, but for folks who don't want a Tesla, they will still buy the other EV brand.

I think Musk turned off a few buyers. That was discussed here before, but we know folks who ordered a MY, but went with something else purely because of Musk. We also know someone else who is looking at Gravity and nothing Tesla just because of Musk too. Just a couple anecdotal cases, but other's here have posted that as well.

This is my view, but having a pure EV fleet when the US market simply doesn't want them (renters) also puts Tesla/Musk in a tough spot. Hybrid sales are still hot:


As much as we all love EVs here, the US consumer (renters I feel mostly) doesn't want a pure EV yet and half the US (for political reasons) hate EVs and are climate change deniers so you lose half of the population already. We have family who will never buy an EV and thinks they are slow to charge and happy to drive their big gas SUV.
 
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Elon didn’t just get lucky with the Covid boom? Is the current stock price still high enough to warrant the full compensation package?

It is irrelevant to a vote about reaffirming a plan that is not in any way associated with the current period of time.

That would be a consideration for the next compensation package, which still has not been proposed.
 
Do we know their LT debt is at 6%? Given how low interest rates were through much of their years of buybacks I'd find that surprisingly high.

That said, the stock is up almost 250% in the last 5 years, so seems buying back is a lot better return than paying off debt even AT 6%.

I randomly looked and this link has some Apple Inc. bonds you can search for. Coupons are in the 1-4% range. Link I posted is for 3%. Not anything Apple is not happy to have I'd guess. Nothing is over 5%.




Even Zuckerberg has a mortgage on his home.
 
Everything Is Awesome in Tesla land, sure.

But as an investor with 15,000+ shares (that is, all my money in TSLA except for some Redwood Materials), I really want to know about what Troy and others have to say about 2024 Q2-Q4 sales. Especially if it's negative.

Thank you for the link @DarkandStormy
We all want information - good and bad. The poster seems to focus only the bad for some strange reason...
 
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So what's the best explanation for the slowdown in Tesla's sales, when they keep lowering ASP and improving offering, while ICE sales don't drop as much/fast?

This scenario goes clearly against my bullish thesis and I'm unable to provide satisfying answers to the questions I get. I've ready the vast majority of posts in this thread but can't find a summary of the best arguments (by investors).

I know about the official reasons for the YoY issues – red sea conflict and arson attack – but the layoff we're hearing about seem far more structural than the "operational efficiency" program the management is telling us about.

None of us can know for certain why Tesla sales seem to be having difficulties, but there is a list of potential reasons:

- Interest rates are high. I know some people say the price cuts offset interest rates leaving monthly payments largely unchanged, but many car buyers won't take a loan with a high rate no matter what the payments are.

- The economy. People (middle and lower class) are hurting financially and can't afford to buy big ticket items right now.

- EV fear. There are still a lot of people who don't trust EV's. I still regularly get strangers asking me about mine, and many are still surprised I'm able to drive it cross country, they thought all EV's have very limited range. This is the largest reason why so many keep asking Tesla to advertise, mostly as a public education program about modern EV's.

- Elon's behavior has turned off some customers. I know this is a controversial topic and many don't believe this is true, but I see it all over the internet and I know many people personally who simply won't even consider buying a Tesla simply because of the stuff Elon says and does. I think many people don't care either way (I don't), but there certainly is a subset of people who treat Elon as an evil billionaire and they don't want to support him in any fashion.

- Competition. While Tesla's are still the best EV's and they sell many more than any other brand, there are some pretty good competitors out there now. Variety in the EV market is a good thing, but it has taken some sales away from Tesla.


I'm pretty sure once the Fed starts lowering interest rates and the global economy starts to improve we'll see Tesla demand go right back up. In the meantime we might be in for a bit of stagnation, this is likely why Elon is in full demon mode right now tightening up the ship so to speak (in my opinion).
 
Got the share vote email overnight from Fidelity. Voted along ‘board recommendation’ down the ballot. Be aware if you hold shares in more than one account (taxable, IRA, etc), you have to vote separately for each account - the ballot will tell you how many shares you are voting on, make sure all your share votes are cast! I got two separate emails, had to vote on each one separately.
Be sure you get all your accounts. I have my Brokerage, IRA, Roth IRA, HSA, spouse IRA, spouse Roth IRA.
I am retired but not yet doing RMD so I am moving shares from IRA to Roth.