Tesla Unionization

[SwedishAdvocate]

The article in the Union's paper claimed that a majority of Swedish mechanics at Tesla Sweden were on strike.

Thanks, this supports the likelihood the union was only referencing their member mechanics at Tesla.

The majority of 13 would be a number between 7 and 12 mechanics, wouldn't it?

I can see how writing "the majority" would look better in print than saying...

"Less than ten percent of the 130 mechanics working at Tesla, and fewer than all of the Union mechanics, were on strike"

But, yeah, saying it the way they wrote in the paper is really saying the same thing, isn't it?

I'm not following...

The article in the Union's paper claimed that a majority of the ~130 Swedish mechanics at Tesla Sweden were on strike. I remember since I was posting about this with someone from Norway in this thread.

 

[2daMoon]

I'm not following...

The article in the Union's paper claimed that a majority of the ~130 Swedish mechanics at Tesla Sweden were on strike. I remember since I was posting about this with someone from Norway in this thread.

Based upon what you have shared, what the Union's paper claimed keeps changing.

• First it was "Swedish mechanics,"
• Next it was "Swedish mechanics working for Tesla,"
• Now you say it read "~130 Swedish mechanics at Tesla Sweden"

Then, you are telling us how you are confused, and not following?
This has seemed possible all along. It is good to see you acknowledge it as well.

How would the union know accurate numbers of any but their own who are striking?

What evidence demonstrates to you that the union counted non-union mechanics among the strikers?

What is offered to counter the "preponderance of evidence" gathered first-hand from Tesla's Swedish mechanics and reported about how even some of the union members didn't strike and others came back to work?

What about the Union's paper reporting how they expelled union member Tesla employees who either continued to, or, returned to work? This, in itself, proves that not all union members working at Tesla were part of the strike.

Occam's Razor still works.

Edit: one more for Occam to shave.

Can you cite other examples in Sweden where non-union employees have joined a union strike and given up their paycheck for the duration? (without requiring them to also join the union in order to share the benefit of the deep union coffers to supplement their income)

It does seem unlikely, doesn't it?

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Based upon what you have shared, what the Union's paper claimed keeps changing.

• First it was "Swedish mechanics,"
• Next it was "Swedish mechanics working for Tesla,"
• Now you say it read "~130 Swedish mechanics at Tesla Sweden"

Then, you are telling us how you are confused, and not following? [...

Ah, yes... This seems more like you...

No. Not confused.

What could I possibly have meant by "majority of Swedish Mechanics". What is it we are debating in this thread? Some mechanics on Mars? I clarified since you seemingly didn't understand. See the difference?

What evidence demonstrates to you that the union counted non-union mechanics among the strikers?

Why would they have done that?

What is offered to counter the "preponderance of evidence" gathered first-hand from Tesla's Swedish mechanics and reported about how even some of the union members didn't strike and others came back to work?

What "preponderance of evidence"?

What about the Union's paper reporting how they expelled union member Tesla employees who either continued to, or, returned to work? This, in itself, proves that not all union members working at Tesla were part of the strike.

Yes. And?

Edit: one more for Occam to shave.

Can you cite other examples in Sweden where non-union employees have joined a union strike and given up their paycheck for the duration? (without requiring them to also join the union in order to share the benefit of the deep union coffers to supplement their income)

This hasn't happened in IF Metall vs. Tesla, so I fail to see any relevance whatsoever.

 

[2daMoon]

Why would they have done that?

To paint a different picture of things than what saying it more accurately would reveal.

What "preponderance of evidence"?

A reference to a US legal term defined earlier in the thread.

It means that there are many unique first-hand accounts from customers and the press confirming from a variety of Tesla employees the minimal impact the strike has had on employee attendance. Enough unique accounts, so as to represent fact, as it would be unlikely that they could have all conspired to establish so elaborate of a lie.

Yes. And?

And, if the union is bragging about how a majority of the 130 Tesla Sweden mechanics, more than 90% of which aren't union members, have joined the strike, it is baffling that several union member Tesla Sweden mechanics chose not join the strike, and/or, returned to their jobs before the strike ended.

Are you implying that it isn't unusual for union members not to join in a union strike? Sounds rather un-unified to me.

This hasn't happened in IF Metall vs. Tesla, so I fail to see any relevance whatsoever.

• You have written there are roughly 130 Tesla Sweden mechanics.
• You have implied how the Union's paper wrote that the majority of Tesla Sweden mechanics have joined the strike.
• That would be at minimum 66 persons.
• Less than 10% of Tesla Sweden mechanics are union members.
• The number 13 has been batted around as being the count of union mechanics who worked at Tesla Sweden. (of which not all joined the strike)
• This would indicate that at least 53 non-union Tesla Sweden mechanics have joined the strike, forsaking their paycheck, to support ~10 union-member mechanics at Tesla Sweden. (Ten, because we were informed of IF Metal expelling Tesla Sweden union member mechanics, plural, for continuing to work)

This indicates two things:

1) for the assertion that the majority of Tesla Sweden mechanics are striking, non-union mechanics employed by Tesla Sweden must have joined the strike

2) union member mechanics employed by Tesla Sweden are known to have not joined the strike and were expelled, as per the Union's paper

How would it not be relevant to ask if there is precedent for this, where in a Swedish union strike there are non-union employees participating, and, there are also union member employees not participating?

 

[chiller]

According to the union (ref: Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra ) more than half of the mechanics at tesla are members, and that even tho some of them did not join the strike, it does not change the overall picture that more than half of them are striking.

This contrasts the "crowdsourced" stuff from the Swedish owners club that had the 12-13 number.

EDIT:
A guy at Tesla says 14 out of 157 mechanics are striking (18 minutes into this):

Cybertruck-besvikelsen som experterna missat – Bilar med sladd

bilarmedsladd.se

 

[heltok]

According to the union (ref: Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra ) more than half of the mechanics at tesla are members, and that even tho some of them did not join the strike, it does not change the overall picture that more than half of them are striking.

This contrasts the "crowdsourced" stuff from the Swedish owners club that had the 12-13 number.

This is how I estimate the "are striking". Feel free to improve my guesstimate

130 mechanics at Tesla were "on strike"
65 of those were union members and were told to strike
50 of these were "striking" but still went to work
Most of these 50 on strike but going to work got excluded by the union for not striking
15 were actually striking of which 9 were in Umeå.
2 changed their minds and went back to work
13 are left striking, enjoying their extended holiday

Anyway, for the first 2 months of the strike there were so many news about Tesla in Sweden and people loved to pile on. But as Tesla didn't react to the provocations, the bullies started to lose interest. I guess it will be a boring few next few months of the strike until something major changes. The union cannot do anything but mildly annoy Tesla and Tesla prefers to be mildly annoyed over signing CA.

 

[2daMoon]

But as Tesla didn't react to the provocations, the bullies started to lose interest.

That's the same technique my mom taught me in grade school. It worked then, guess it still works now.

Tesler r s smahrt as my mom.

 

[Zuikkis]

50 of these were "striking" but still went to work
Most of these 50 on strike but going to work got excluded by the union for not striking

Heh, so these 50 told union they were striking, to get the promised 130% compensation, but in reality went to work and got paid by Tesla also?

No wonder union kicked them out..

 

[CitizenKane]

According to the union (ref: Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra ) more than half of the mechanics at tesla are members, and that even tho some of them did not join the strike, it does not change the overall picture that more than half of them are striking.

This contrasts the "crowdsourced" stuff from the Swedish owners club that had the 12-13 number.

EDIT:
A guy at Tesla says 14 out of 157 mechanics are striking (18 minutes into this):

Cybertruck-besvikelsen som experterna missat – Bilar med sladd

bilarmedsladd.se

Except that even though this, now quite old, interview is made in the Union's own paper, he never says that half of the mechanics are striking. What he says is that half of the mechanics are union members, that they must strike if they want to keep being members and that the Union is in dialogue with "some" members who refuse to strike, and then does not want to comment on how many that is. Bearing in mind that this is hardly an objective source, if anything it points toward the information on Tesla Club Sweden is accurate. Tesla saying that fewer than 10% of its Swedish employees are striking also seems correct, although as pointed out in the article somewhat misleading as many white collar employees would not be subject to the strike anyway. Tesla would be very foolish to outright lie about the 10% figure.

So all in all this points toward maybe 20-30 mechanics on strike. I don't think I have seen the "12-13" number. What I saw that there is one workshop in the North of Sweden where all mechanics went striking and then a few random ones on the other workshops.

 

[2daMoon]

Heh, so these 50 told union they were striking, to get the promised 130% compensation, but in reality went to work and got paid by Tesla also?

No wonder union kicked them out..

Those employee-members may have thought it would take the union two years to catch on, like it did with the person the union thought was studying law while drawing income from the union.

 

[2daMoon]

Except that even though this, now quite old, interview is made in the Union's own paper, he never says that half of the mechanics are striking. What he says is that half of the mechanics are union members, that they must strike if they want to keep being members and that the Union is in dialogue with "some" members who refuse to strike, and then does not want to comment on how many that is. Bearing in mind that this is hardly an objective source, if anything it points toward the information on Tesla Club Sweden is accurate. Tesla saying that fewer than 10% of its Swedish employees are striking also seems correct, although as pointed out in the article somewhat misleading as many white collar employees would not be subject to the strike anyway. Tesla would be very foolish to outright lie about the 10% figure.

So all in all this points toward maybe 20-30 mechanics on strike. I don't think I have seen the "12-13" number. What I saw that there is one workshop in the North of Sweden where all mechanics went striking and then a few random ones on the other workshops.

It is good to see this sort of information and evaluation as the picture becomes clearer with additional data. Even if some of it is conflicting, the numbers can be averaged and may provide a rough guess with more accuracy that before.

I very much appreciate all of the locals who have taken the time to review the coverage, interpret it from a Swedish perspective, and offer it here in English.

You rock!

 

[chiller]

This is how I estimate the "are striking". Feel free to improve my guesstimate

130 mechanics at Tesla were "on strike"
65 of those were union members and were told to strike
50 of these were "striking" but still went to work
Most of these 50 on strike but going to work got excluded by the union for not striking
15 were actually striking of which 9 were in Umeå.
2 changed their minds and went back to work
13 are left striking, enjoying their extended holiday

I think this might be on the money.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Except that even though this, now quite old, interview is made in the Union's own paper, he never says that half of the mechanics are striking. What he says is that half of the mechanics are union members, that they must strike if they want to keep being members and that the Union is in dialogue with "some" members who refuse to strike, and then does not want to comment on how many that is. [...

Yes, it's not a direct quote from Veli-Pekka, but that article from Nov 30 last year claims that more than half of the mechanical workers [verkstadsarbetare] at the mechanical shops at Tesla Sweden were on strike at that time.

– Såhär är det. De som vi har tagit ut i konflikt är de som arbetar inom IF Metalls avtalsområde. Det är inte hela Tesla, vi tar inte ut tjänstemän till exempel. Utifrån det perspektivet stämmer inte den där siffran från Tesla.

Hur många är det som strejkar?

– Över hälften av alla bilmekaniker på Tesla är medlemmar hos oss, säger han.

Veli-Pekka medger att det finns fackmedlemmar bland dem som fortfarande jobbar, och därmed agerar strejkbrytare. Men de ska vara få, och inte påverka helhetsbilden att över hälften av Teslas verkstadsarbetare är ute i strejk. [My underline.]

Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra

Tesla hävdar att över 90 procent av personalen arbetar, trots strejken. Nu går IF Metall ut med en egen siffra.

da.se

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

To paint a different picture of things than what saying it more accurately would reveal.



A reference to a US legal term defined earlier in the thread.

It means that there are many unique first-hand accounts from customers and the press confirming from a variety of Tesla employees the minimal impact the strike has had on employee attendance. Enough unique accounts, so as to represent fact, as it would be unlikely that they could have all conspired to establish so elaborate of a lie.



And, if the union is bragging about how a majority of the 130 Tesla Sweden mechanics, more than 90% of which aren't union members, have joined the strike, it is baffling that several union member Tesla Sweden mechanics chose not join the strike, and/or, returned to their jobs before the strike ended.

Are you implying that it isn't unusual for union members not to join in a union strike? Sounds rather un-unified to me.

• You have written there are roughly 130 Tesla Sweden mechanics.
• You have implied how the Union's paper wrote that the majority of Tesla Sweden mechanics have joined the strike.
• That would be at minimum 66 persons.
• Less than 10% of Tesla Sweden mechanics are union members.
• The number 13 has been batted around as being the count of union mechanics who worked at Tesla Sweden. (of which not all joined the strike)
• This would indicate that at least 53 non-union Tesla Sweden mechanics have joined the strike, forsaking their paycheck, to support ~10 union-member mechanics at Tesla Sweden. (Ten, because we were informed of IF Metal expelling Tesla Sweden union member mechanics, plural, for continuing to work)

This indicates two things:

1) for the assertion that the majority of Tesla Sweden mechanics are striking, non-union mechanics employed by Tesla Sweden must have joined the strike

2) union member mechanics employed by Tesla Sweden are known to have not joined the strike and were expelled, as per the Union's paper

How would it not be relevant to ask if there is precedent for this, where in a Swedish union strike there are non-union employees participating, and, there are also union member employees not participating?

In short:
All of what you claim here is probably impossible to fact check. And even if it could somehow be fact checked there would still be too many unknowns. And finally: A fact check would take way, way, way too much time. And I am absolutely not going to spend that time.

This conflict between IF Metall and Tesla will most likely last another year and then some.

So... You're very welcome to get the last word. Unless I change my mind about that last word that is... ;-)

 

[chiller]

Yes, it's not a direct quote from Veli-Pekka, but that article claims that more than half of the workers at the mechanical shops at Tesla Sweden were on strike at that time.

– Såhär är det. De som vi har tagit ut i konflikt är de som arbetar inom IF Metalls avtalsområde. Det är inte hela Tesla, vi tar inte ut tjänstemän till exempel. Utifrån det perspektivet stämmer inte den där siffran från Tesla.

Hur många är det som strejkar?

– Över hälften av alla bilmekaniker på Tesla är medlemmar hos oss, säger han.

Veli-Pekka medger att det finns fackmedlemmar bland dem som fortfarande jobbar, och därmed agerar strejkbrytare. Men de ska vara få, och inte påverka helhetsbilden att över hälften av Teslas verkstadsarbetare är ute i strejk. [My underline.]

Så många strejkar på Tesla – IF Metall går ut med siffra

Tesla hävdar att över 90 procent av personalen arbetar, trots strejken. Nu går IF Metall ut med en egen siffra.

da.se

If it is like the Norwegian phrase "tatt ut i streik", it can mean that "more than half of the mechanics have been told that they should strike". Which would make everything match up as heltok showed.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

If it is like the Norwegian phrase "tatt ut i streik", it can mean that "more than half of the mechanics have been told that they should strike". Which would make everything match up as heltok showed.

Possibly. But the way it's worded it could also mean that they were on strike.

 

[2daMoon]

Possibly. But the way it's worded it could also mean that they were on strike.

To me it seems prudent when reading press releases from entities holding a clear bias, to consider all interpretations of questionable phrases.

I'll often then take preference for the one most detrimental to their goal as likely being the most accurate until further facts demonstrate otherwise.

It is human nature to conceal within colorful language aspects that are wanted to be kept veiled from clear view. This provides the possibility for useful misunderstanding without the shade an outright lie would cast. The bigger the stakes, the more this will be true.

 

[samppa]

Since IF Metal pays the 130% salary for those mechanics that are on strike, they must know exactly how many are on strike. They are not saying the precise number in public, to me that implies its less strikers than they would like.

Of course Tesla also must know who shows up to work and who doesn't. But clearly Tesla does not want to engage in public debate at all.

 

[samppa]

"Now the trade union IF Metall is easing the blockade that prevents workshops from handling
electric car manufacturer Tesla's cars. Between February 19 and April 30, the union introduces a temporary dispensation so that cars that cannot be used can be repaired. This is reported by Swedish Radio.

The dispensation does not apply to Tesla's own workshops where there is a strike, but to around 30 other damaged workshops.

When this window is closed, it will be very difficult to get your car fixed so you have to think about which car you are buying, says IF Metall's contract secretary Veli-Pekka Säikkälä." (from a news feed of Nordnet)

 

[2daMoon]

I wonder who's Tesla was in the shop for repair that was influential enough to lead to this temporary change of strategy?