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Tesla will not upgrade its own systems
- Thread starter brockm
- Start date
Based on posts I've seen in other threads, there are a lot of restrictions on the type of flat roofs that Tesla will install a system on and I don't think modified bitumen is one of them, but I'm not certain. I guess it doesn't matter in this case anyways.
Shygar
Member
Just curious, did you try asking Tesla from the beginning if they would install an 8 kW system on a 5kW inverter? Because I would think they would have put in a bigger inverter.
If you want to add more panels and your inverter handles it, that seems like a really easy thing to do. And isn't PTO from PG&E based on the max output from the inverter anyways?
And yea, my PG&E off-peak is like $0.125 per kW, where are you getting $0.028?
If you want to add more panels and your inverter handles it, that seems like a really easy thing to do. And isn't PTO from PG&E based on the max output from the inverter anyways?
And yea, my PG&E off-peak is like $0.125 per kW, where are you getting $0.028?
I would like to know as well.
But, this is good to know that they aren’t willing to upgrade. Thanks.
One more reason (5 total) why I advise everyone that asks me about going solar to not get Tesla solar.
Well, you live with your decision.
Are you sure there isn't a per kWh delivery charge as well? The $10 is probably PG&E's minimum charge. With a CCA you pay the generation charge to your CCA (EBCE, in your case) and the delivery charge to PG&E. In the winter when you're a net consumer this will be more obvious. I think you'll find the two charges add up to the standard $.125/kWh off-peak rate for EV-A.
That is correct..
On a typical PG&E bill where there is a CCA, PG&E has not figured out how to bill at the unbundled rates for delivery (distribution, transmission etc.). Typically what they do is to bill at the bundled rate and then deduct an amount that they call Generation Credit which is figured on their unbundled rate for generation. That shows up usually on page 6 titled Details of NEM Charges. Then on a subsequent page the CCA generation charges are added back in.
Ulmo
Active Member
Very minor nit:
Few Teslas can charge at your 15kW of PowerWall max output rate, and those that can can only go up to about 21kW at most, so cranking it down isn't much of a loss. The problem with charging from PowerWalls is the triple battery wear and tear and triple conversion losses. (Damn Tesla for not doing straight DC dump in this case, taking out at least two of the conversion losses, but not the triple battery wear and tear.) Also, if you're already using up your power by other home use, then that isn't directly available from the PowerWalls (the utility and/or solar can make up for it depending on the situation).
In practice, it doesn't make sense to charge your car from your PowerWalls, as you have doubtless figured out, so that's why my nit is pretty minor. Yes, I charged a car using the full 10kW available to me from my 2 PowerWalls one day just to see what would happen, and not only was it easy, but it gave me more stable high voltage since I wasn't dependent on the sagging voltage of the PG&E lines and transformer, so it actually worked better for the Tesla, but of course, with the aforementioned higher wear and tear and losses, it was more of an experiment than a useful thing to do.
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Ulmo
Active Member
Some lessons here:
- Don't get solar from the lowest rated solar installer (Tesla Solar).
- When installing conduit, put in additional empty large diameter conduit for future use. It's almost always useful sometime later.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
I would think a small local installer would have no problem adding 2kW or so to your existing array. Where are you?
Warranty issues would be the only problem, but certainly the hardware would still be covered just not the labor.
Warranty issues would be the only problem, but certainly the hardware would still be covered just not the labor.
Good points.
That was why I asked if there was a sub panel at the pool house. If there was he could put up some panels with micro inverters or if enough room on the roof. a small string and an inverter near that panel. Or if another conduit had been thrown in the trench another AC circuit for micro inverters or small string inverter. It still might be worth seeing if the existing conduit for the pool pumps could take another set of 12 AWG wires to run some of the above alternatives. Or alternately pull one set of bigger wires and install a sub panel.
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Or a west facing shade structure (pergola) on part of the property next to the building.
There are two separate, brand new, high capacity lines from the pool house to the main panel in the main house. One was for the solar, and one is a 70A / 240V trunk to a subpanel for the hot tub (which is oversized for potential future use). The pool house roof is only about 60% covered with panels. That’s where I’d add them.
House was built in 1914. But I’ve spent almost $30,000 going from old knob and tube, as well as some mid-century aluminum wiring and upgrading the entire property’s electrical system to modern AFCI standards (well, I’ve had to downgrade two AFCI breakers because of incompatibility with two TVs. But that’s a whole other matter) . When I did the landscaping this year, I dug up all the old lines they were put there in the 70s (when the pool and guest houses were added) and replaced them too.
Bottom line, property is well wired for future solar expansion.
House was built in 1914. But I’ve spent almost $30,000 going from old knob and tube, as well as some mid-century aluminum wiring and upgrading the entire property’s electrical system to modern AFCI standards (well, I’ve had to downgrade two AFCI breakers because of incompatibility with two TVs. But that’s a whole other matter) . When I did the landscaping this year, I dug up all the old lines they were put there in the 70s (when the pool and guest houses were added) and replaced them too.
Bottom line, property is well wired for future solar expansion.
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That is good news. If you can't leverage Tesla to add panels you can add a standalone system on the pool house roof.
ElectricTundra
P85D AP1
This thread raises two significant issues:
1) Tesla Energy cannot be trusted. Companies should continue to provide support for older products for some reasonable amount of time. That Tesla Energy is not doing this raises huge concerns about doing business with them. Will they do the same with anything purchased today? Tomorrow? You betcha.
2) The solar industry needs to get its act together. Imagine if you asked an electrician to repair an outlet that's not working and they said that they'd have to re-wire the entire house because they use a different system than the one that was installed just 3 years prior. Solar customers must be able to know that if the company that installed their system goes out of business or they find out that they are crooks that they can rely on other solar companies for repair or expansion at reasonable costs.
1) Tesla Energy cannot be trusted. Companies should continue to provide support for older products for some reasonable amount of time. That Tesla Energy is not doing this raises huge concerns about doing business with them. Will they do the same with anything purchased today? Tomorrow? You betcha.
2) The solar industry needs to get its act together. Imagine if you asked an electrician to repair an outlet that's not working and they said that they'd have to re-wire the entire house because they use a different system than the one that was installed just 3 years prior. Solar customers must be able to know that if the company that installed their system goes out of business or they find out that they are crooks that they can rely on other solar companies for repair or expansion at reasonable costs.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
It's my understanding that the OP isn't having an issue getting service, it's Tesla not honoring an original plan made with SolarCity to expand the existing array. That's excessive rigidity, not a lack of trustworthiness.
We seem to be seeing this a lot when people are seeking outside the box service from both the Energy and Automotive sides. Perhaps having product development and customer service in a libertarian's company isn't as streamlined as they imagined. Service needs to improve, but it doesn't look like it's happening while the war is still on.
Nationwide and large regional solar installers are a hot mess. Costs are super bloated on the front end and you get nothing once the contract is signed and the sales team has moved on, half the time without passing on any of the carefully crafted detail you supplied.
They've turned something relatively simple into a massive pain in the ass.
ElectricTundra
P85D AP1
Support includes service, maintenance, answering questions, upgrading software and expansion or add-on to systems.
It is indeed trustworthiness. If they said that they would expand his system for him and he made a purchase decision based on that and then they are not following through on doing it then that is very much trustworthiness.
woferry
Member
Unfortunately, in my experience these sorts of things are not uncommon, and not limited to just solar. When San Jose came to inspect the work Tesla did installing my roof, the inspector at first wanted Tesla to completely re-wire circuits that they did not touch other than moving the circuit from the original panel to a new one a few inches to the side, on work that had passed inspection 10 years ago (from a kitchen remodel, all the work done by a professional electrician and properly permitted/inspected). I think the inspector only finally relented after the nasty glares he got from both myself and the Tesla lead, and it was probably his right to demand the work be re-done, but thankfully he backed off. The fact that it was inspected/passed before probably didn't really matter, if a new inspector finds an issue the previous one didn't, etc.
Similarly (but not electrical), I had a plumber refuse to repair/replace a bad disposal, on the grounds that newer code required an air-gap and I didn't have one, so it would have been a much more costly repair. I later confirmed that this wasn't correct and there was a grandfathering clause, so I was glad that I sent him away and just did the work myself. But in my experience I've found it quite common for one contractor to refuse to accept the work that was already done.
My parents also recently had an issue with their home internet (Verizon FIOS), where when the technician came out and saw the previous model modem being used, immediately refused to do any service until the modem was replaced with the current model. And she didn't have one in her truck, so she went away without doing anything, while my parents waited for a new modem to be shipped to them. So that was even a case of the same company not supporting equipment they had previously installed, just because it wasn't what they currently install.
Agree with the points being made here.
What’s interesting is just how divorced the solar business is from typical Silicon Valley startup philosophy. It’s a ground-and-pound endurance and relationship game that more closely resembles running a small government than a startup. Tesla wanted “Mission Accomplished” and what they got was a land war in Asia.
What’s interesting is just how divorced the solar business is from typical Silicon Valley startup philosophy. It’s a ground-and-pound endurance and relationship game that more closely resembles running a small government than a startup. Tesla wanted “Mission Accomplished” and what they got was a land war in Asia.
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
To sell a car all you need is someone willing to buy a car. Selling miniature power plants has many more obstacles for the seller and the buyer.
The engineer-based logic of the Rive brothers at SolarCIty definitely thought they would waltz into the marketplace and there would be parades. Elon the economist/physicist/engineer knows better.
