Thinking of purchasing my first Tesla

[Watts_Up]

Just to add to the fry... not mentioned above is the resale value in about 5 years.
ICE cars will lose a lot more value than EVs, because of the ban of selling new ICE cars in US behind 2030.
So better to replace your ICE earlier as possible,

However, a car lost most of its value its first year, so typically people keep their car for about three year for that reason,
which is a good compromise. Also the longer you keep your car, the better you amortise new car sales taxes.

Another point is the Model Y possible refresh following the Model 3 Highlander update.
So better waiting a little bit for getting a Model Y, especilly is there might be any new battery range improvment.

 

[Watts_Up]

A couple of months ago, I moved to California and the house we purchased has solar so electricity is free.

Do you have battries to store solar energy?
Also I wonder what kind of hot water heating you have?

I have solar panels and use natural gas for water heating,
I am evaluating running a heatpump using excess solar energy.

 

[Mike728]

...
ICE cars will lose a lot more value than EVs, because of the ban of selling new ICE cars in US behind 2030.
...

I'm thinking the opposite will happen. There are a lot of Never EV'rs out there. Especially older people who will ride their ICE out into the sunset.

Nothing against old people as a whole. I'm one of them.

 

[foxwiz5262]

Just for kicks, I recommend you test drive the Model 3. You don't even have to think of it as a potential purchase. Just think of it as doing a favor for an internet stranger. Take it out for a spin, drive it like the full-size go-kart that it i

*** I am about to go into a rant, so it is best for you to stop reading here. To continue reading, please make sure you have thick skins and won't take anything personally.

I can respect your decision. If the car is not for you ... then its not for you.

BUT...
I don't understand... based on your original question "would you take a loss and recapture.." I am a finance professional and this is a finance question, Based on the info you provided, the math simply works!

Your spreadsheet is wrong because you are not factoring:
- $7,500.00 Fed Tax Credit (unless you are telling me you either don't pay $7,500 in Fed Tax or your joint AGI is > $300,000 for 2023)
-$2,000.00 Cal CVRP Rebate
The sum is $9,500.00 (call it $10K for ease of rounding).

Your "gas" / electron is free (essentially) from solar, while you are paying $300~$350 a month in petro/gasoline (via credit card, presumably).

The difference between your RDX @$42K vs a new Model Y LR @$52K (+Tax and License add $5K) is $15K ($57K-$42K)
1) As discussed above, $10K is recovered via tax credit and rebate. Your net diff is now $5K.
2) You will need to change oil with your RDX, at least 1X per year. appx $200
3) You will need to replace your brakes at least 1 X / 5 yrs in RDX (Tesla Model Y Brakes will be fine for 150K miles, unless rust - due to infrequent usage) Appx $2,000
4) I am not going into tuneups, transmission service.. they are requisite and they are not cheap.

Your math simply is off .. by taking a loss now on your 8 month old RDX you will be made whole on Model Y LR in 18 months
You will be SAVING real money 1.5 yrs from now from keeping your RDX. This simply makes SENSE!

The "problem with Auto Pilot" is a total BS excuse to make yourself feel good about your decision to pass. The phantom braking is a non-issue.

I can respect if you simply like the RDX traditional car cabin and dislike the Scandovanian minimalistic design of Tesla, but let's call it what it is. We all have different tastes, and Tesla is now turning into the "Toyota Camry, Honda Accord" of the world whereby everyone has it. It's okay to be different. But your decision does NOT involve a "smarter financial decision".


cheers,

beewang

*** I am about to go into a rant, so it is best for you to stop reading here. To continue reading, please make sure you have thick skins and won't take anything personally.

I can respect your decision. If the car is not for you ... then its not for you.

BUT...
I don't understand... based on your original question "would you take a loss and recapture.." I am a finance professional and this is a finance question, Based on the info you provided, the math simply works!

Your spreadsheet is wrong because you are not factoring:
- $7,500.00 Fed Tax Credit (unless you are telling me you either don't pay $7,500 in Fed Tax or your joint AGI is > $300,000 for 2023)
-$2,000.00 Cal CVRP Rebate
The sum is $9,500.00 (call it $10K for ease of rounding).

Your "gas" / electron is free (essentially) from solar, while you are paying $300~$350 a month in petro/gasoline (via credit card, presumably).

The difference between your RDX @$42K vs a new Model Y LR @$52K (+Tax and License add $5K) is $15K ($57K-$42K)
1) As discussed above, $10K is recovered via tax credit and rebate. Your net diff is now $5K.
2) You will need to change oil with your RDX, at least 1X per year. appx $200
3) You will need to replace your brakes at least 1 X / 5 yrs in RDX (Tesla Model Y Brakes will be fine for 150K miles, unless rust - due to infrequent usage) Appx $2,000
4) I am not going into tuneups, transmission service.. they are requisite and they are not cheap.

Your math simply is off .. by taking a loss now on your 8 month old RDX you will be made whole on Model Y LR in 18 months
You will be SAVING real money 1.5 yrs from now from keeping your RDX. This simply makes SENSE!

The "problem with Auto Pilot" is a total BS excuse to make yourself feel good about your decision to pass. The phantom braking is a non-issue.

I can respect if you simply like the RDX traditional car cabin and dislike the Scandovanian minimalistic design of Tesla, but let's call it what it is. We all have different tastes, and Tesla is now turning into the "Toyota Camry, Honda Accord" of the world whereby everyone has it. It's okay to be different. But your decision does NOT involve a "smarter financial decision".


cheers,

beewang

I did some adjustments to my spreadsheet, and this is what I came up with. The real cost of the vehicle out the door is as follows:
Tesla Y cost: $51,970
Sales Tax: $3,897.75
License Fees: $1,200.00 (approx, might be high)
Destination Charge: $1390.00
240 Line in Garage plus Charger: $2,000.00
Trade Value for RDX: -$43,000.00
Real cost of vehicle at this point: $17,475.75

I have Auto Club of So Cal insurance and the adjusted amount from the RDX to the Tesla is an additional $1,800 a year. OUCH.

Knowing that I will be getting a $7,500 credit on taxes in April 2024 and a check from California for $2,000 within a month or so, I will take out $9,500 from savings. I am guessing my trade will be $43,000 (haven't been to CarMax, or Carvana, or the Acura dealer for an offer yet), so that brings my loan to $7,957.75 and at 6%, that would leave a monthly payment of $153.85. Over 60 months the payback amount would be $9,230.

Come April 2024, the out of pocket cost of the Tesla becomes $9,230 after I pay myself back the $9,500 I took out for the cash down.

I am guessing that if I drive 15k miles per year and gas costing $5.15 a gallon, that will put the cost of gas and service at around $4,158 (Gas $3,678 + $480 service) and subtract the $1,800 for insurance bringing my yearly savings to $2,358. I hope I did this correctly. With this scenario, to recoup the $9,230 (6% for 60 months) loan, it would take 3.9 years. If I add the $13k for the "loss" of money for the RDX, it will take me about 9 years to recoup, but maybe we don't do that because I did get use of the vehicle for 8 months and not sure the value of that. If I totally screwed up, please let me know.

I don't really care about the Auto Pilot issue now. We did talk it over and we are warming up to maybe getting the Tesla, but if we do, I will need to check other insurance companies.

 

[mgeneczko]

I did some adjustments to my spreadsheet, and this is what I came up with. The real cost of the vehicle out the door is as follows:
Tesla Y cost: $51,970
Sales Tax: $3,897.75
License Fees: $1,200.00 (approx, might be high)
Destination Charge: $1390.00
240 Line in Garage plus Charger: $2,000.00
Trade Value for RDX: -$43,000.00
Real cost of vehicle at this point: $17,475.75

I have Auto Club of So Cal insurance and the adjusted amount from the RDX to the Tesla is an additional $1,800 a year. OUCH.

Knowing that I will be getting a $7,500 credit on taxes in April 2024 and a check from California for $2,000 within a month or so, I will take out $9,500 from savings. I am guessing my trade will be $43,000 (haven't been to CarMax, or Carvana, or the Acura dealer for an offer yet), so that brings my loan to $7,957.75 and at 6%, that would leave a monthly payment of $153.85. Over 60 months the payback amount would be $9,230.

Come April 2024, the out of pocket cost of the Tesla becomes $9,230 after I pay myself back the $9,500 I took out for the cash down.

I am guessing that if I drive 15k miles per year and gas costing $5.15 a gallon, that will put the cost of gas and service at around $4,158 (Gas $3,678 + $480 service) and subtract the $1,800 for insurance bringing my yearly savings to $2,358. I hope I did this correctly. With this scenario, to recoup the $9,230 (6% for 60 months) loan, it would take 3.9 years. If I add the $13k for the "loss" of money for the RDX, it will take me about 9 years to recoup, but maybe we don't do that because I did get use of the vehicle for 8 months and not sure the value of that. If I totally screwed up, please let me know.

I don't really care about the Auto Pilot issue now. We did talk it over and we are warming up to maybe getting the Tesla, but if we do, I will need to check other insurance companies.

Curious as to why the ins is an extra $1800 a year? Here in NJ I've had ICE and Teslas on same Ins and both were new and both were about $110 a month to insure. Have a mix of $500 and $1000 deductables. I thought NJ had one of the worst car ins prices in the USA. Maybe CA is worst?

 

[Gordon87]

I understand your concern about trading in now. I don't know what the right answer for you is.

I'm not trying to complicate your analysis, but as to the cost of adding a 240v outlet in your garage, you might consider that a capital improvement to your house rather than a current cost of switching to an EV now. Also, if you fully expect to buy an EV in the future, paying for the 240v outlet now is more of an advanced capital improvement. So, you may consider merely the cost of doing that now rather than later as part of the cost analysis, rather than the full cost of that improvement.

Good luck whatever you ultimately decide.

 

[mgeneczko]

I understand your concern about trading in now. I don't know what the right answer for you is.

I'm not trying to complicate your analysis, but as to the cost of adding a 240v outlet in your garage, you might consider that a capital improvement to your house rather than a current cost of switching to an EV now. Also, if you fully expect to buy an EV in the future, paying for the 240v outlet now is more of an advanced capital improvement. So, you may consider merely the cost of doing that now rather than later as part of the cost analysis, rather than the full cost of that improvement.

Good luck whatever you ultimately decide.

I agree as a capital improvement that will help sell your house later. Also check the fed tax incentive to install a home charger which I'm seeing could be a tax credit of 30% of the cost or up to $1000.

 

[jjrandorin]

Curious as to why the ins is an extra $1800 a year? Here in NJ I've had ICE and Teslas on same Ins and both were new and both were about $110 a month to insure. Have a mix of $500 and $1000 deductables. I thought NJ had one of the worst car ins prices in the USA. Maybe CA is worst?

Some insurance companies dont want to insure Teslas, and the way they do that is by making the rates outlandish. AAA is one such company, which is a great insurance company but charges exorbitant rates for Teslas. There are others.

 

[foxwiz5262]

Do you have battries to store solar energy?
Also I wonder what kind of hot water heating you have?

I have solar panels and use natural gas for water heating,
I am evaluating running a heatpump using excess solar energy.

We don't have batteries to store the solar power and we do have a tankless water heater.

 

[Watts_Up]

We don't have batteries to store the solar power and we do have a tankless water heater.

Thank you for following up. When you mentioned having 19 PVs, it seems that each panel has a microinverter.
If you don't have batteries, then you can only charge your car with solar energy during the day.

Do you know the kWh rate that you get during the day when sending power to the rid.
And by opposition, when you are not producing solar energy what rate do you pay to you electrical company.
Also are you considering getting a Powerwall.

 

[pipestem]

While there are people who may be considering this "for the good of the earth", for Tesla to survive as a company, it needs to be Way way WAAAY past that as far as customer base.

I have (2) Tesla vehicles, Solar City (now Tesla) solar panels, and 2 powerwall batteries, and absolutely zero (none) of that was purchased "for the good of the earth". I got them because they made the most sense for what I was trying to accomplish.

IMO people need to stop trying to push "For the environment!!!" on everyone like thats going to be a primary driver for everyone (its not). The products need to be good enough to stand on their own, and not get bogged down in discussions about whether or how battery manufacturing itself is good for the environment, how people with solar are pushing costs onto those who cant afford to install solar, or any other agenda based discussions like that.

Most people just want to know "does it work for me and my family?" For many people, the answer here is Yes. There are a few gotchas with Tesla, just like some other brands, but buy and large the products are decent to very good, and can hold their own with competing products from other companies, depending on what your priorities are.

For a lot of people though, they shut down the minute someone starts going on about "you have a responsibility to those who come after to Xxxxxxxx blah blah blah". Focus on the products themselves, they are good enough to stand on their own without that stuff, for the most part.

I kind of disagree. Whether someone considers environment as a main driver or as nice to have or even just notable, it's not bad to mention. No one buys a car for just one reason, our brains are more complex than that. Just saying the word environment does not mean the car can be sloppy, there are competitors now.

 

[foxwiz5262]

Thank you for following up. When you mentioned having 19 PVs, it seems that each panel has a microinverter.
If you don't have batteries, then you can only charge your car with solar energy during the day.

Do you know the kWh rate that you get during the day when sending power to the rid.
And by opposition, when you are not producing solar energy what rate do you pay to you electrical company.
Also are you considering getting a Powerwall.

I guess the panels generate about 37 kWh a day when it is sunny and most of the time, I use way less than that except on days when the temperature goes above 95. The last owners never paid for any electricity, they just paid the lease for the panels. I am expecting to do the same.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

...] For a lot of people though, they shut down the minute someone starts going on about "you have a responsibility to those who come after to [...

I'm sure some do. But others do not.

See for example this thread from some 10+ years ago... That member, derekt75, ended up buying a Model S instead of an Audi S6 and seemed to not regret it...

Can't decide between Model S or Audi S6

I suggest you move here and buy a Model S. Surely you jest. This is circumstantial at best. The maintenance costs don't get interesting until the Audi is out of warranty in 4 years - I am confident Audi will have no advantage in this area. Audi Care on an S6 is around $880 I believe. That...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[WhyElAre]

Hi all. I'm also considering my first tesla. My situation is a little bit different than the OP. I live in the northeast and unfortunately do not have my own garage. The winters can be a bit harsh and wanted some feedback as to others who own teslas in cold weather areas. Does the range take that big of a hit in the cold? Anything else I should know about leaving the tesla outdoors all year? Looking into PPF or maybe a car cover for the winters.. I'd appreciate any feedback

 

[jjrandorin]

Hi all. I'm also considering my first tesla. My situation is a little bit different than the OP. I live in the northeast and unfortunately do not have my own garage. The winters can be a bit harsh and wanted some feedback as to others who own teslas in cold weather areas. Does the range take that big of a hit in the cold? Anything else I should know about leaving the tesla outdoors all year? Looking into PPF or maybe a car cover for the winters.. I'd appreciate any feedback

Can you expect to charge this car at home, or at work? Not having a garage doesnt necessarily mean you wont have charging there. If you dont have charging at home or at work, my personal opinion is, dont buy a battery electric vehicle. People do it, for sure, It just has to be for something other than convenience as you will drive to a charger way more than you think you will.

 

[mgeneczko]

Hi all. I'm also considering my first tesla. My situation is a little bit different than the OP. I live in the northeast and unfortunately do not have my own garage. The winters can be a bit harsh and wanted some feedback as to others who own teslas in cold weather areas. Does the range take that big of a hit in the cold? Anything else I should know about leaving the tesla outdoors all year? Looking into PPF or maybe a car cover for the winters.. I'd appreciate any feedback

I'm in NJ, and we are not as cold or snowy as NH, but there is a dramatic range hit in the cold and takes little longer to charge for me at home with no garage. You say no garage, but I'm assuming you have a driveway? The key would be able to always have it plugged in when at home if possible or as much as possible. It's not that big of a deal depending on your daily drive miles and if you can charge at home or at work. Also are there any SC near you?

 

[WhyElAre]

Can you expect to charge this car at home, or at work? Not having a garage doesnt necessarily mean you wont have charging there. If you dont have charging at home or at work, my personal opinion is, dont buy a battery electric vehicle. People do it, for sure, It just has to be for something other than convenience as you will drive to a charger way more than you think you will.

As of now, I don't have my own charging capability. There's a SC 5min away and a level 2 charger that's walking distance away from my place. The primary reason for considering the tesla is wanting to upgrade my current vehicle. Secondly, the massive price cut with the tax credit makes the tesla real appealing. And the gas savings wont hurt either. Thanks for the feedback!

I'm in NJ, and we are not as cold or snowy as NH, but there is a dramatic range hit in the cold and takes little longer to charge for me at home with no garage. You say no garage, but I'm assuming you have a driveway? The key would be able to always have it plugged in when at home if possible or as much as possible. It's not that big of a deal depending on your daily drive miles and if you can charge at home or at work. Also are there any SC near you?

My plan was to use the SC that's close by as my primary source of charging. I know its a bit more expensive than charging from home but until I can find my forever home in this market, I'll be renting.

 

[jjrandorin]

As of now, I don't have my own charging capability. There's a SC 5min away and a level 2 charger that's walking distance away from my place. The primary reason for considering the tesla is wanting to upgrade my current vehicle. Secondly, the massive price cut with the tax credit makes the tesla real appealing. And the gas savings wont hurt either. Thanks for the feedback!


My plan was to use the SC that's close by as my primary source of charging. I know its a bit more expensive than charging from home but until I can find my forever home in this market, I'll be renting.

People in this situation tend to think some version of the following:

=====================

"I dont have charging at home, or at work, but there is a super charger really close to me. I only drive 15 / 20 (insert number here) miles to work, and the car has a 279 / 330 mile range. I will be able to drive it and only go to the charger every 10-11 days, and have plenty left over, it wont be so bad".

=====================

It doesnt work like that at all, and if your thought process is anything at all like the above, just cut the number of days you calculated in that example above in about 1/2 (meaning you will be going to the charger twice as much as you think). One of the biggest strengths of owning an EV is the fact that, if you have home charging (or at least work charging and you go there daily / every other day), you dont have to make special trips to fuel it.

If you have home charging, "range" only matters if you are a traveling salesperson, or drive out your entire range daily, or are going on a long trip, which for most are all rare occurances. If you dont have home charging, you will end up as another in a line of people posting about " WTF I drove 12 miles and 22 rolled off the range meter! I parked and didnt drive it for a week and lost 20 miles, This is a lot more inconvenient than I thought!.

 

[gt2690b]

As of now, I don't have my own charging capability. There's a SC 5min away and a level 2 charger that's walking distance away from my place. The primary reason for considering the tesla is wanting to upgrade my current vehicle. Secondly, the massive price cut with the tax credit makes the tesla real appealing. And the gas savings wont hurt either. Thanks for the feedback!


My plan was to use the SC that's close by as my primary source of charging. I know its a bit more expensive than charging from home but until I can find my forever home in this market, I'll be renting.

is there at least a 120V available where u park? relying on SC especially in cold weather would be a PITA and not financially a good idea either (they charge often 3-4x the going electricity rate)

 

[gt2690b]

...

Look, your situation changed, you now have a new gig in SoCal and you have SUN, WIND and Solar Panels.
Also your math is wrong! You USED to drive 15K in colorado. You're now in Socal, there is ALOT more schitt to do than colorado (and you live in Temecula)
...

i've lived in both and find i drive more miles in CO than i did in SoCal for a couple reasons

1 - surfing is closer than skiing
2 - colorado has 58 peaks over 14k feet and CA only has like a dozen or so
3 - i drove to more national parks in CO.. from CA i would fly to places like yellowstone - grand canyon, etc
4 - i have kids now so maybe thats part of the reason i drive more in CO
5 - skiing in CA was not a day trip activity so less trips to the mountains in general