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Today's lease announcement was anticlimactic
- Thread starter InsanityWolf
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- Tesla Inc.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Motor Authority. That's a bit different weight than Motor Trend.
Sorry. Thanks for picking that up. To minimize confusion I'll edit my original posting.
Larry
I don't think that it's Tesla's intent to pull a fast one or monkey with numbers, but I agree with the way Motor Aurhority expressed it: Tesla is coming across that way, and it's a bad thing.
If you are going to factor the amount saved writing off a Tesla as a business expense, then why is there no mention of the cost to replace the battery, the monthly maintenance, and 3G connectivity pricing? All those make it at best a 800 dollar a month car true cost to own.
It's a straight up lie however you cut it, and I thought Tesla was trying to distance itself from the sleazy practices of dealerships?
It's a straight up lie however you cut it, and I thought Tesla was trying to distance itself from the sleazy practices of dealerships?
So I noticed the calculator is initialized with 15,000 miles for the gas calculation. But the guaranteed resale value is decreased by 25 cents per mile over 12,000 miles per year. So driving 15,000 miles per year will cost you $2,250 in resale value. I don't see that cost accounted for anywhere in the calculator.
SebastianR
Active Member
I think we all need a little perspective here. We are enthusiasts and we always want everything to go perfectly. On the other hand, the media lives of hype and controversy. Remember that NYT piece? It lived on because people talked about it forever.
Now in many ways what Tesla did here is very very smart: they created controversy around the topic that everybody ignores and nobody focuses on, but a topic that is important in understanding how EVs work: The cost of ownership for a car.
Look at it this way: There are millions of people out there who think of an EV like an ICE - a car that you have to fill-up whenever the battery is empty. Very few people think of the car like a phone / computer which you plug-in whenever convenient and that saves you the trip to the gas station. Again, keep in mind that from a Camry to a 7-Series all ICE cars need to go and refuel from time to time. Also all of them need oil changes etc. So if you sell a 7-Series over a Camry, you just talk about 'luxury'. If you sell a Tesla, you should ask the question: "how much do you want to pay to never visit a gas station ever again?".
So, what did Tesla do? Well they started a discussion that's important to the future of EVs. They created the controversy where they wanted (and needed) it. Now, does it work? We will see. But look at this trend here:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=tesla%20motors&date=today%201-m&cmpt=q
There is nothing not to like about this graph.
Now in many ways what Tesla did here is very very smart: they created controversy around the topic that everybody ignores and nobody focuses on, but a topic that is important in understanding how EVs work: The cost of ownership for a car.
Look at it this way: There are millions of people out there who think of an EV like an ICE - a car that you have to fill-up whenever the battery is empty. Very few people think of the car like a phone / computer which you plug-in whenever convenient and that saves you the trip to the gas station. Again, keep in mind that from a Camry to a 7-Series all ICE cars need to go and refuel from time to time. Also all of them need oil changes etc. So if you sell a 7-Series over a Camry, you just talk about 'luxury'. If you sell a Tesla, you should ask the question: "how much do you want to pay to never visit a gas station ever again?".
So, what did Tesla do? Well they started a discussion that's important to the future of EVs. They created the controversy where they wanted (and needed) it. Now, does it work? We will see. But look at this trend here:
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=tesla%20motors&date=today%201-m&cmpt=q
There is nothing not to like about this graph.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Maybe each item needs a bit of explanation, but I think the tax deduction is on there (optionally) because it is directly related to the amount of the monthly payment. So that's just in the same bucket. Based on the amount of the monthly payment, it automatically calculates the corresponding tax deduction for you.
From Tesla increases lease calculator costs; Supercharging, announcement coming soon :
Even if the business deduction were valid (it sure isn't for most people), that deductability isn't Model S nor EV specific. The time savings (assuming you can assign it $100/hr), can be had w/other BEVs.
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Norbert
TSLA will win
The specific characteristic about this financing package is that you get a loan, thus owning the car; you can pay off the loan at any time you wish; yet as with a lease, specifically within 36-39 month you have the option to return the car for a guaranteed resale value (which approximately equals the loan pay off amount at that time). Or you can keep it and continue paying monthly payments, or buy it out of the loan (the latter any time). So, it combines features of a loan with features of a lease.
I don't think anything else is purely Model S specific.
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The challenge is sorting out "To what am I comparing this $500?"
- Driving your current ICE car? The business deduction might be relevant if you've already exhausted the deductions on your current vehicle--again, for the relatively small % of Americans who can write-off lease or interest expenses as a business deduction.
- Buying a new ICE? The business deduction isn't relevant because it's available on any new car.
- Buying a competing BEV? I don't think that's what Tesla had in mind, in large part because I don't think Elon views the short-haul BEVs as competition. In fact, with the 40kWh option gone, it's clear that Tesla is exiting that market segment, leaving it for Daimler's new B-series (with the Tesla drivetrain). Pretty smart, actually.
The biggest omission, IMO, is the service plan. In terms of out-of-pocket cash, this is a $40/month item, and a cost that many competing car companies wrap into the purchase/lease price. The 3G charge couldn't be included because it isn't announced, nor should it be because it's completely optional. Other cars have on-going connectivity charges, too.
ModelS8794
Member
The page is describing the 'lease' program and true cost to own. If you are in the market for a 3 year lease, the cost to replace the battery at year 8 doesn't seem very relevant does it?
I agree they should give consideration for the data package, though mitigating that you have the two facts that do data package pricing has been announced yet, and the data package is just one of many additional options that are excluded from the page since it is describing the base package pricing and cost-to-own.
I agree the annual maintenance really ought to be included, even if it has an offset against the avg. maintenance costs of comparable ICE cars.
The day ICE manufacturers start talking about full transmission and engine replacements after 200k then we can start talking about battery replacement costs.
Here's a Bloomberg article that summarizes media reaction to what they characterize and Elon's spin.
Elon Musk, Meet the Twitter Vigilantes
Larry
Elon Musk, Meet the Twitter Vigilantes
Larry
NigelM
Recovering Member
Norbert
TSLA will win
Maybe that's not how most people are used to think, but I'd think many at the necessary income level work more than 40 hours, and see a monetary value in working longer even if they don't get paid by the hour. Plus, they don't like driving to smelly gas stations or, especially, wasting time in slow traffic. I mean, look at the buzz they create around charging times, and how they supposedly can't be bothered to give up their ICE because a few times a year they'd have to wait for a Supercharger, even though in that time you can do something. But you are right, it's another challenge to how we are used to think, having accepted the downsides of the gasoline process as a fact of life.
Agreed its nice not to have to stop at gas stations. However, do you believe that Tesla's helped or hurt the brand by ascribing an imputed default value of $100/hour to waiting at gas stations so as to imply the net value of a psuedo-lease is $500/month? :wink:
Larry
Clprenz
Member
I have found why people are upset with a climatic hype. Elon made the wrong choice, he should of done the supercharger announcement first. Financing for cars with a creative calculators is not exciting, his guarantee is worth hype! Not as much as he said. If he would have done the announcement on that thursday, everything would of been fine. I am not critiquing Elon I am just saying that he could of had a more positive response if it was after a more, innovative announcement!
$100/hour is far below my hourly billing rate, but I still think it's a tough sell to try to monetize those stray minutes as an offset to hard-cash outlays.
K Hall
Member
I have used the last two days to add to my position. Short term swings do not matter unless you are caught in a short term option.
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