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Toyota Solid State Battery, confirmed?
- Thread starter Tiger
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Brando
Active Member
Don't worry by the time Solid State batteries are ready for prime time you might be ready for a new car. You can see I'm from the school you should own a car for decades. If it is working for you, why worry? Is ANY one going to make a car AS safe as a Tesla? what do a few pennies a mile matter?
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
It’s Scotty Kilmer.
He’s entertaining, but overhypes everything, is a Toyota fanboy one second, then says they’re ‘done’, is a hydrogen fanboy the next second, then switches over to solid-state batteries. Tomorrow, it’ll be something else.
I dunno if he’s desperate for YouTube views or is just manic-depressive, but... ehh. He’s way better when he sticks to talking about ICE cars, instead of new technologies.
Anyhow, I wouldn’t worry about SS batteries too much... it’ll likely be five years (or more) before they’re cheap enough, reliable/tested enough, and are being produced at sufficient scale that they’ll find their way into a lot of EVs.
If you wanna wait ‘til then you can, but you’re then missing out on driving a better car in the meantime.
Plus, there’s no guarantee that SS will even be the end-all, be-all when it finally shows up... some other up-and-coming battery technology might match or beat it, or maybe even an across-the-board continuing refinement of existing designs and chemistries might prevail. No one really knows.
TLDR version: Buy what you like, and don’t worry too much about what ‘may’ or may not be coming down the pike, ‘cuz otherwise you’ll always be waiting.
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As a battery engineer, yes solid state batteries are real and have been in development for a long time. I do agree it will be at least a couple years before you see the first ones on the market (Toyota) or possibly longer. There is a big difference between making it work in the lab, on a prototype in ideal conditions, and being ready for production in varied climates and use scenarios. Something to look forward to though!
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Caught the QuantumScape CEO on Bloomberg today... they’re in the vanguard of solid-state battery development, and in fact just announced a major breakthrough earlier this week.
When asked about timelines, he said he expected SS batteries based on their technology to start showing up in EVs in “2024 or 2025”.
Which to me means, “2025... if we’re lucky.”
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When asked about timelines, he said he expected SS batteries based on their technology to start showing up in EVs in “2024 or 2025”.
Which to me means, “2025... if we’re lucky.”
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Kilmer talks about home charging that takes hours being a thing of the past. No way. Home L2 charge times are not dominated by the rate at which the battery can take energy - they’re limited by how much power your home charger can provide. If your house can only provide 100 amps at 240V, then 24 KW is as fast as you can charge. If your battery is 50 KWh it will still take a bit over 2 hours to charge. Your house’s capacity is the limiting factor, not the battery.
Supercharging is a whole different story, but there are still limits. To fill a 100 KWh battery in 10 minutes requires a charge rate of 600KW before factoring in imperfect efficiency.
Supercharging is a whole different story, but there are still limits. To fill a 100 KWh battery in 10 minutes requires a charge rate of 600KW before factoring in imperfect efficiency.
All true. But I would argue whether it's important or not. For trips, absolutely. For home charging? When I park I'm generally in. It doesn't matter whether it takes 10 minutes or 10 hours as long as it's ready for me the next morning.
Agreed, I’m just pointing out that Kilmer’s discussion of faster home charging times as a benefit of SS batteries was baloney.
Caught the QuantumScape CEO on Bloomberg today... they’re in the vanguard of solid-state battery development, and in fact just announced a major breakthrough earlier this week.
When asked about timelines, he said he expected SS batteries based on their technology to start showing up in EVs in “2024 or 2025”.
Which to me means, “2025... if we’re lucky.”
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https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/researcher_translation.png
FutureShock
Best Coast Denizen
Great points. But for home charging, it goes even beyond that, in terms of limitations.
There’s something known as a rectifier, which basically converts the grid’s AC power to the DC power your car’s battery can actually accept.
At a supercharger station, the rectifier is built into the station equipment and can handle the (big) task of converting a LOT of electricity, say 250 kW, i.e. the max supercharging rate a Tesla can handle (though even if you had an even faster rectifier, you start to run into thermal management issues if you charge too fast).
BUT, at home, you’re using the rectifier that’s built into the car, actually. And that one’s only good up to 11.5 kW or so (what the latest Model 3 has, anyway), which is basically a 240-volt, 48 amp feed. Aka a good home circuit that’ll charge you fully overnight, but nowhere near supercharger speeds.
I guess Kilmer didn’t know any of that, being an ICE car expert, but maybe not knowing too much about EVs. ‘Supercharging at home’ just is not a thing, for multiple reasons, some already mentioned.
Heck, it’s not even good for your battery’s longevity to be supercharging it every time... which is why if you do that, Tesla’s software eventually starts throttling down your supercharging speeds, in an effort to protect the battery.
The bulk of your Tesla’s charging should be done in your garage, at ‘normal’ speeds. Supercharging is for long road trips, really.
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