Trying to buy my first Tesla, need advice.

[dannycamps]

Yes, what I have is simply an outlet that would take a 220v plug inserted into it to power something ala a deep freezer. Sounds like I'd need the adapter from Tesla but another component I can't envision properly since I've never actually seen a Tesla charger upclose.

The car you purchase should come with the mobile charger. This can charge at both 110v and 220v rates depending on the outlet it is plugged into. Most used cars will include both 110v (NEMA 5-15) and 220v (NEMA 14-50) adapters with the charger. Depending on the outlet you have at home, you may be fine or you may need an adapter. For example, if your outlet at home is a NEMA 6-20 outlet, you would need an adapter to convert 6-20 to 14-50 (basically the shape of the plug is different). Knowing the type of outlet you have at home will go a long way in telling you exactly what you will

I actually thought that all warranty options are out of question if the car is over 50K miles and the owner didn't buy warranty, so this is a pleasant surprise. My expectation is that it will likely be a 2/100K warranty that'll cost me like $4K... Any thoughts?

Don't assume this is correct and it's probably not. Sometimes Tesla sales reps give out inaccurate information (through no fault of their own). In this case, I would recommend going with the X-Care third party warranty as for the same $4k you will get minimally 4/50k (and can extend further if needed). While I have no direct experience with X-Care, people have posted positive experiences so far. The Tesla battery/drive unit warranty is in effect and will cover the car for 8 years/unlimited miles from original in-service date (up to 2024 on a 2016 car).

Thank you for sharing your experience here. Great points about battery degradation. Do you know why the Performance models are more prone for degradation, than the normal ones?

They aren't more prone. The early 90kW batteries found in the 90D and P90D used a different chemistry which led to more substantial initial degradation before leveling off. Basically a 2016 90D originally rated for 294 miles of range if purchased today would probably show a rated range of ~270 at 100%.

Another interesting theme on these forums I'm learning. People seem to prefer the newer cars over the older beefed up Ps and Ds..

This is strictly personal preference and there are a lot of factors that go into this but primarily cost/budget. If you can buy a 2016 car for $50k that gives you 85% of everything you can get in a new car that is $40k more, I think it's worth buying used. I would not ever consider a Model 3 over a Model S - again strictly personal reasons.

My first Tesla was a 2015 85D that I bought last year for $52k with 16k miles on it and looked like it rolled right off the showroom floor. After my accident, I tried to find another one with the same options but was unable to so I bought a 2019 demo/inventory car with the same options. If a 90D was available, I would've went for that instead to save on the cost.

 

[BigNick]

2. I have a 210v outlet not a 240. It was meant to be a deeper freezer outlet. Can I do anything with that?

I don't know if you mean 208V. 240V is far more common for household use than 208V. If what you have is actually 208V, it will have a socket that is different than a 240V socket which will pose some problems. For example, Tesla does not make a plug adapter for its UMC that works with 208V or 277V (it's very unlikely your "210V" is 277V service.)

Some public L2 chargers operate on 208V service. A Tesla HPWC should be able to be wired into a 208V circuit - however there have been 3 different HPWC designs, so check documentation and be sure what you're getting before shelling out cash. (A Tesla HPWC isn't your only choice, there are other companies that make L2 "chargers" but most of them use J1772 connectors, which means you'd need a J1772 adapter (which should be included with your UMC.)

NEMA socket diagrams: Nema Plug and Receptacle configurations

If you have a NEMA 10-30R, 14-30R, or 14-50R you're good to go. Your UMC may come with a 14-50 plug depending on how old/new the charger is. Tesla makes eight different plug adapters for the Gen2 UMC: Gen 2 NEMA Adapters and six different plug adapters for the older Gen1 UMC: Gen 1 NEMA Adapters

 

[Fragger]

Please be careful here -- what you posted here ONLY applies to used cars sold directly from Tesla as the "Pre-owned Limited Warranty" (see: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/northamerica-preowned-extended-warranty.pdf) This does NOT apply to any third-pary used car sales.

View attachment 526792

Any used, third-party, and not from a dealer, i.e. private sales MS/MX buyer can purchase the Extended Service Agreement up to 1,000 miles or 30 days past the expiration of the factory warranty. see: Extended Service Agreement



You are correct. If the car has more than 51,000 miles you can not buy a warranty from Tesla, but you may from other providers (Excelerate, etc).

This is correct. Just spoke to Tesla and they confirmed that even if the car was under 50K, unless the original owner bought the warranty, I have no recourse. The same is true for FUSC... Even though I may be the second owner, since I would have bought it from a dealer... I cannot get those benefits even if I transfer into the Tesla account, successfully. Really crumby practice by Tesla!

OP,

You mention your location is Texas. From what I have read, electricity is so cheap in texas, there is almost no " value" in free unlimited supercharging. your time is worth way more than you would "save" going to a supercharger every couple of days to charge for 30 minutes or something.

Now, the free unlimited premium connectivity is worth 9.99 every month you own the car, so $120 a year, without you having to go anywhere to get it or take any other actions, so that would be a nice to have.

And yeah "tesla stores" dont have superchargers most of the time, they have level 2 chargers (the same you would have at home) and they are mostly for them to charge demo cars. They will not let you come there to charge " regularly".. as in if you show up every 3-4 days, they will likely start turning you away. So, you are basically talking about that supercharger that is "30 minutes away" for electricity that is likely worth 10 cents a kW or something.

Again, fair points my friend. I definitely have a ton of SC locations where I am... But I keep hearing that it's not worth it. Plus, the more days I spend on this, the less I see me getting a car with those things available any way...

One note on buying the Ludicrous upgrade. I briefly had a late 2016 P90D and the service center said they wouldn't do the ludicrous upgrade. Tesla obviously does some to its own used cars it sells. Why they wouldn't do a ludicrous upgrade for $10k when it probably involves a tech going in and flipping a few switches is beyond me. Also they won't do power lift gate conversions for those few cars they delivered with manual lift gates. Get the car you want with the options you want already installed. I will tell you, the difference in acceleration between my P85+ and any of the performance dual motors is stark. It's why the rear motor performance vehicles didn't last long, it's hard to get a solid consistent launch since wheel spin is such a big factor. But it's still a fun car to drive

Thank you for sharing your experience, I have definitely concluded that I was the PD configuration. Just keep going back and forth with 85 and 90... Some people suggest the best value is a P85D+ with AP1... But I don't know how to find those since they're such unicorns!

Why they can't give us the Ludicrous upgrade for money is beyond me as well... Some private seller told me that too many Ludicrous launches can cause a lot of issues with the axels and such... Maybe they're trying to reduce occurrences?

The car you purchase should come with the mobile charger. This can charge at both 110v and 220v rates depending on the outlet it is plugged into. Most used cars will include both 110v (NEMA 5-15) and 220v (NEMA 14-50) adapters with the charger. Depending on the outlet you have at home, you may be fine or you may need an adapter. For example, if your outlet at home is a NEMA 6-20 outlet, you would need an adapter to convert 6-20 to 14-50 (basically the shape of the plug is different). Knowing the type of outlet you have at home will go a long way in telling you exactly what you will



Don't assume this is correct and it's probably not. Sometimes Tesla sales reps give out inaccurate information (through no fault of their own). In this case, I would recommend going with the X-Care third party warranty as for the same $4k you will get minimally 4/50k (and can extend further if needed). While I have no direct experience with X-Care, people have posted positive experiences so far. The Tesla battery/drive unit warranty is in effect and will cover the car for 8 years/unlimited miles from original in-service date (up to 2024 on a 2016 car).



They aren't more prone. The early 90kW batteries found in the 90D and P90D used a different chemistry which led to more substantial initial degradation before leveling off. Basically a 2016 90D originally rated for 294 miles of range if purchased today would probably show a rated range of ~270 at 100%.



This is strictly personal preference and there are a lot of factors that go into this but primarily cost/budget. If you can buy a 2016 car for $50k that gives you 85% of everything you can get in a new car that is $40k more, I think it's worth buying used. I would not ever consider a Model 3 over a Model S - again strictly personal reasons.

My first Tesla was a 2015 85D that I bought last year for $52k with 16k miles on it and looked like it rolled right off the showroom floor. After my accident, I tried to find another one with the same options but was unable to so I bought a 2019 demo/inventory car with the same options. If a 90D was available, I would've went for that instead to save on the cost.

More and more my options seem to be filtered to exploring the X-Care, Xcelerate warranty... Problem is, they're quite expensive and not many have filed claims with them yet...

How did you end up getting an inventory car? Your 85D sounds like an amazing scenario! Sorry for your loss on the accident.

About the outlet, I'll post the picture of my outlet here for everyone. I think I may have the right thing...


You guys are amazing teachers! Thank you all!

 

[geoffmanley]

Thank you for sharing your experience, I have definitely concluded that I was the PD configuration. Just keep going back and forth with 85 and 90... Some people suggest the best value is a P85D+ with AP1... But I don't know how to find those since they're such unicorns!

Why they can't give us the Ludicrous upgrade for money is beyond me as well... Some private seller told me that too many Ludicrous launches can cause a lot of issues with the axels and such... Maybe they're trying to reduce occurrences?

The + suspension is key in my opinion. I love the way mine handles. I think if you get a P85D before a certain date in 2015 then it will have the + suspension. If you are buying from a private seller, you can always see if they still have the original window sticker which will have the options listed. I don't believe any of the P90Ds had that suspension set up but I could be wrong.

 

[Fragger]

The + suspension is key in my opinion. I love the way mine handles. I think if you get a P85D before a certain date in 2015 then it will have the + suspension. If you are buying from a private seller, you can always see if they still have the original window sticker which will have the options listed. I don't believe any of the P90Ds had that suspension set up but I could be wrong.

No, I think you're right, friend. + suspension
was a brief install on somesome of the P85Ds. Trade off works probably be, them being older and a bit under covered from a warranty perspective...

 

[dannycamps]

The + suspension is key in my opinion.

I am not an expert on suspensions but to me, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between +, coil, or air. The air suspension to me feels great and provides a nice quiet ride but I am definitely not a performance car guy. I think the tires make more of a difference as the 21s will provide a bit harsher ride than the 19s (the 21s do look sweet though).

It all comes down to budget and options. Personally, I would lean towards a 2015 or later P85D or P90D. For standard highway driving, AP1 does a great job and is still more advanced than most other types of adaptive cruise control out there.

EV-CPO currently has two P85Ds listed that show up if you add in the '+ Suspension' filter.

 

[Fragger]

I am not an expert on suspensions but to me, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between +, coil, or air. The air suspension to me feels great and provides a nice quiet ride but I am definitely not a performance car guy. I think the tires make more of a difference as the 21s will provide a bit harsher ride than the 19s (the 21s do look sweet though).

It all comes down to budget and options. Personally, I would lean towards a 2015 or later P85D or P90D. For standard highway driving, AP1 does a great job and is still more advanced than most other types of adaptive cruise control out there.

EV-CPO currently has two P85Ds listed that show up if you add in the '+ Suspension' filter.

Thank you Danny, more learning for me... I'll go check out the search you mentioned.

For some of my other patient friends and teachers here... I've got the pictures of my outlet... Please help me analyze away ! Looks like I have a hook up for a 240 here...

 

[HankLloydRight]

o, I think you're right, friend. + suspension
was a brief install on somesome of the P85Ds.

Just to reiterate, the P+ suspension was installed in thousands of P85Ds between December, 2014 and April, 2015 (inclusive). It wasn't a 'brief' install on 'some' P85Ds. They are really not hard to find. Please see this thread for more detail than you ever wanted: Performance Plus (+) Upgrade

EV-CPO currently has two P85Ds listed that show up if you add in the '+ Suspension' filter.

The PX01 option code the denotes the P+ suspension is not reliable enough for P85Ds (see the thread linked above). So while there are two P85D+ listed on EV-CPO, there could be many more. You really have to go by the Build Date-- Any P85D built on or before April, 30, 2015 are P85D+. If you look again at the build date on EV-CPO, 5 of the 8 currently available P85Ds will have the P+ suspension.

I am not an expert on suspensions but to me, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between +, coil, or air.

There is a noticable difference between all three suspensions.

For some of my other patient friends and teachers here... I've got the pictures of my outlet... Please help me analyze away ! Looks like I have a hook up for a 240 here...

The photo you posted is the circuit breaker in your breaker panel. If that's the breaker for the new outlet you have, it's only a 20-amp, 120v outlet (see the first photo below).

We need to see the actual plug/outlet in your garage, it will look similar to one of these --most likely this first photo here which is a 120v 20amp outlet (charges at maximum 16 amps):

These are 240v outlets:

 

[dannycamps]

The photo you posted is the circuit breaker in your breaker panel. If that's the breaker for the new outlet you have, it's only a 20-amp, 120v outlet (see the first photo below)...

A 240v breaker would be a double or tandem breaker going to the same circuit (120v x 2). What you pictured was a standard 120v 20amp outlet (regular garage plug). It's possible you have a 240v circuit there but just took a photo of the wrong breaker.

Grab a pick of the actual outlet plug in the garage itself. That will be the best way to tell.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I am not an expert on suspensions but to me, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference between +, coil, or air. The air suspension to me feels great and provides a nice quiet ride but I am definitely not a performance car guy. I think the tires make more of a difference as the 21s will provide a bit harsher ride than the 19s (the 21s do look sweet though).

It all comes down to budget and options. Personally, I would lean towards a 2015 or later P85D or P90D. For standard highway driving, AP1 does a great job and is still more advanced than most other types of adaptive cruise control out there.

EV-CPO currently has two P85Ds listed that show up if you add in the '+ Suspension' filter.

I've owned all three types of suspension (sans the newest dynamic version with the introduction of the Raven iteration) and you can most definitely notice a difference independent of what wheels you're running.

 

[Fragger]

Just to reiterate, the P+ suspension was installed in thousands of P85Ds between December, 2014 and April, 2015 (inclusive). It wasn't a 'brief' install on 'some' P85Ds. They are really not hard to find. Please see this thread for more detail than you ever wanted: Performance Plus (+) Upgrade



The PX01 option code the denotes the P+ suspension is not reliable enough for P85Ds (see the thread linked above). So while there are two P85D+ listed on EV-CPO, there could be many more. You really have to go by the Build Date-- Any P85D built on or before April, 30, 2015 are P85D+. If you look again at the build date on EV-CPO, 5 of the 8 currently available P85Ds will have the P+ suspension.



There is a noticable difference between all three suspensions.



The photo you posted is the circuit breaker in your breaker panel. If that's the breaker for the new outlet you have, it's only a 20-amp, 120v outlet (see the first photo below).

We need to see the actual plug/outlet in your garage, it will look similar to one of these --most likely this first photo here which is a 120v 20amp outlet (charges at maximum 16 amps):

These are 240v outlets:

Thank you Hank, this is great info. I'm not sure, but it's not always easy to get that door sticker picture of the cars to get the manufacturing date. But are we certain that anything before April 30th 2015, P85D will definitely have the + Suspension?

As for the unicorn 85...am I confusing it with a P85+ with AP1, which is the actual unicorn?

About the outlet, I really thought I posted that picture last night as well, but I guess it didn't attached. Trying again in this post now...

A 240v breaker would be a double or tandem breaker going to the same circuit (120v x 2). What you pictured was a standard 120v 20amp outlet (regular garage plug). It's possible you have a 240v circuit there but just took a photo of the wrong breaker.

Grab a pick of the actual outlet plug in the garage itself. That will be the best way to tell.

Yep attaching again... Sorry.

I've owned all three types of suspension (sans the newest dynamic version with the introduction of the Raven iteration) and you can most definitely notice a difference independent of what wheels you're running.

Just to be clear, what is the consensus here for the best suspension to get? I've seen air being the most common. I guess + was coils? And smart is... hydrolics?

 

[Fragger]

Forgot the picture

 

[HankLloydRight]

Thank you Hank, this is great info. I'm not sure, but it's not always easy to get that door sticker picture of the cars to get the manufacturing date. But are we certain that anything before April 30th 2015, P85D will definitely have the + Suspension?

You're welcome. Nothing is 100% certain, but I would say with 99% certainty, that all P85Ds made April 30, 2015 or earlier are P85D+ cars. Check out this specific post in the thread I linked above: Performance Plus (+) Upgrade -- the parts catalog clearly indicates the P+ air suspension parts for P85Ds made up to April 30 2015.

As for the unicorn 85...am I confusing it with a P85+ with AP1, which is the actual unicorn?

Yes, the P85+ (RWD) with AP1 is a rare unicorn. They are called "The 300" as it's estimated that only 300 units exist. There's a group here on TMC for "The 300".

The outlet you have is definitely a 5-20 outlet. That's 120v at 20amps, which charges your car at 16amps or 1.9kw. Compared to charging at 240v at 40 amps is 9.6kw (either with the Tesla HPWC or the mobile charger). You can definitely charge your car using that outlet, but it's a bit slow -- charges at about 6 mph. Overnight you'd refill about 50 to 60 miles.

As long as you're driving less than say 50 miles per day, it should be sufficient. But that's not sufficient for a lot of people who need more charging/driving everyday. I work at home and definitely don't drive that many miles on a regular basis, so I actually charge at 120v@12 amps or 4 miles per hour, and it's good enough for me!

 

[Fragger]

You're welcome. Nothing is 100% certain, but I would say with 99% certainty, that all P85Ds made April 30, 2015 or earlier are P85D+ cars. Check out this specific post in the thread I linked above: Performance Plus (+) Upgrade -- the parts catalog clearly indicates the P+ air suspension parts for P85Ds made up to April 30 2015.



Yes, the P85+ (RWD) with AP1 is a rare unicorn. They are called "The 300" as it's estimated that only 300 units exist. There's a group here on TMC for "The 300".

The outlet you have is definitely a 5-20 outlet. That's 120v at 20amps, which charges your car at 16amps or 1.9kw. Compared to charging at 240v at 40 amps is 9.6kw (either with the Tesla HPWC or the mobile charger). You can definitely charge your car using that outlet, but it's a bit slow -- charges at about 6 mph. Overnight you'd refill about 50 to 60 miles.

As long as you're driving less than say 50 miles per day, it should be sufficient. But that's not sufficient for a lot of people who need more charging/driving everyday. I work at home and definitely don't drive that many miles on a regular basis, so I actually charge at 120v@12 amps or 4 miles per hour, and it's good enough for me!

Thanks again Hank. From a power consumption standpoint, meaning electric bill... Is the cost saving of charging your whole car within 8 hours overnight vs. A couple of days using the outlet I have... Is that worth it you think?

 

[rrodby]

I cant imagine charging it with regular outlet over 2 days. Knowing I can completely charge it overnight is the best. This car is not cheap, and then you may have to rewire your garage, all adds up. But electric cars are here to stay and those costs will never go to waste. 2 days to charge? What is this Gilligans's Island?

 

[HankLloydRight]

Thanks again Hank. From a power consumption standpoint, meaning electric bill... Is the cost saving of charging your whole car within 8 hours overnight vs. A couple of days using the outlet I have... Is that worth it you think?

Charging at 120v vs 240v is certainly less efficient. I don't know what the break-even point looks like (i.e. when paying to have a new 240v circuit to your garage installed vs. paying a little more to charge at 120v over some time period), but if you're on a budget and don't drive more than 50 miles a day, charging at 120v@16 amps is sufficient.

I cant imagine charging it with regular outlet over 2 days. .... 2 days to charge? What is this Gilligans's Island?

It's never "a couple of days" to charge your car, unless you drive it down to 0 miles in a single day. On an average day, say you start out with a "full" battery at 80% charge.. drive 50 miles (or 20% of your battery) and return with a 60% charge, it's still only going to be overnight to recharge to a "full" 80% (numbers are approximate, ymmv). And that's assuming you can't charge at work which many people can do.

Sure, charging at 240v@40amps might be one to two hours, but if you're sleeping and your car is charging overnight, does it really matter if it's 2 hours or 8 hours? (Besides the decreased efficiency of charging at 120v). In the event you do need a fast charge for a long or unexpected trip, hit up a supercharger enroute.

You might want to get an estimate to upgrade your garage outlet to 240v and at least 30amps (50 amps is optimal) just so you know the costs/benefit. You can use the mobile connector with the car, so there's no need to install anything other than a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet.

 

[BigNick]

The real difference in charging at 120V vs 240V is in cold weather. If your garage gets down to near freezing, or if you charge outdoors in winter time, 120V @ 12A (on a 5-15 socket) or 16A (on a 5-20 socket) isn't enough to get the battery heat high enough to charge with any appreciable speed. The heater can draw up to 6kW (the actual consumption varies) but 120V @ 16A is only 1.92kW.

240V circuits provide higher amperage options (24A on a 10-30/14-30, 40A on a 14-50) which means 5.76kW or 9.6kW (or if you're lucky enough to have a high-amperage charger or dual-charger equipped car, 72A or 80A for 17.28kW or 19.2kW are possible via HPWC wired into a 90A or 100A circuit.)

I have an HPWC in my garage (unheated but insulated, temperature rarely goes below 40F, but didn't go much below 50F in the mild 2020 winter) wired on a 100A circuit so I could theoretically charge at 80A (my car isn't equipped with the 72A or 80A charging options) or have a second HPWC installed for two cars simultaneously charging at 40A. If you plan on moving in the future, you may not want to make such a large investment as it really doesn't increase the value of your home in the general marketplace unless you have EV owners looking to buy it.

Charging on 240V @ 40A, it usually takes me about 4 hours to add 50% SoC to my battery (rough estimate is 5 minutes per 1% added) but that's on a nearly 5-year-old 85kWh pack. I would guess it's more like 6 or 7 minutes per 1% added.

Also note that the Tesla BMS will drop charging amperage if the circuit experiences a voltage drop at full amperage. I don't know the exact threshold, but I've seen it happen on public L2 charge equipment - a 208V 30A L2 charger dropped below 200V at full draw and the car cut the charge rate by roughly 25% (from 30A to 22A) as a safety measure.

 

[jbcarioca]

First, there are P85D+ available, not quite unicorns, but not quite common either. The first P85D were the + IIRC the + ended in mid-2015. Mine was made in late 2014 so of course was a+. At the time most of the owners I knew paid for the Ludicrous upgrade and also, less well known upgrade to LTE, which is material, and probably was done to nearly all those that were upgraded to Ludicrous.
Of course all of those will be out of basic warranty, but in the battery warranty.

I personally would not worry about some damage history, but I would both drive whatever you choose and pay for a complete inspection from Tesla.it will cost but will pay in the long run.

I would also try to get one with 19” wheels rather than 21”. The tire replacement cost and tire longevity pay handsomely as does the absence of road hazards. There are many P85D with 19”, and even if with 21” you can usually switch because some people want to buy those cool-looked bigger ones.

There were a handful of common problems back then, all of which have usually been rectified. One that should be examined is the 12V battery. IMHO that one should be replaced every three years max because it becomes VERY expensive if one fails on the road.

Mostly P85D are pretty rock-solid. If one exists as a CPO you might not have + but you’ll have the CPO warranty and probable lower total costs in the event of costly repairs. Door handles, center screen and the dreaded chip replacement are all things that can cost, for which CPO can help.

 

[jbcarioca]

I don't know if you mean 208V. 240V is far more common for household use than 208V...

Some public L2 chargers operate on 208V service...

Not quite true. MFD in the US are commonly 208V, single family tend to be 220 or 240. There are distinct patterns between different geographic and public utility providers. In general the 208-240v use the same plug in residential service with lots of variety for RV, old/new dryers/welding shops etc. looking up the plug types is always helpful.

older Model S often come with several optional plugs because back when they were new Superchargers were not common. Check your chosen used car fir extra plugs. I sold mine with four optional adapters in addition to the OEM.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Mostly P85D are pretty rock-solid. If one exists as a CPO you might not have + but you’ll have the CPO warranty and probable lower total costs in the event of costly repairs.

Currently, 5 of the 8 P85Ds listed for sale on Tesla.com are P85D+ cars (with the
2-year limited warranty). The black one ( 2014 Model S | Tesla ) has the Ludicrous badge, but it's unclear if Tesla is stripping Ludicrous off of P85DLs.

The real difference in charging at 120V vs 240V is in cold weather. If your garage gets down to near freezing, or if you charge outdoors in winter time, 120V @ 12A (on a 5-15 socket) or 16A (on a 5-20 socket) isn't enough to get the battery heat high enough to charge with any appreciable speed.

The OP lives in Texas, so I'm not sure it gets down to or below freezing very often.
I live in the cold Northeast, and I also have an attached/non-heated garage that gets down to the 50s in the coldest winter days. My car has no problems charging at 120v@12amps.